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Hi i am posting because i am generally feeling like i am stuck in a rut in a 23 year old male and feeling unmotivated to study/work and regularly sleeping half the day, i might sleep 7-8 hours then just continue sleeping for another 3-4 because i cant be f’ed to get up.
@MetalMX 4438 wrote:
Hi i am posting because i am generally feeling like i am stuck in a rut in a 23 year old male and feeling unmotivated to study/work and regularly sleeping half the day, i might sleep 7-8 hours then just continue sleeping for another 3-4 because i cant be f’ed to get up.
Excessive sleep, inability to motivate one’s self are two of several symptoms that occur due to excessive pro-inflammatory signaling.
Depression is an illness that at its heart is a pro-inflammatory condition. So are heart disease, diabetes, irritable bowel disease, allergies, and asthma.
These days, I generally do as thorough immune system evaluation, in addition to a psychological, psychiatric, neurologic, endocrine, metabolic-nutritional evaluation to help determine the underlying causes of a person’s illness and then target them in treatment. Without the immune system evaluation, one is missing an important component to explain why a person is ill.
@DrMariano 4518 wrote:
Excessive sleep, inability to motivate one’s self are two of several symptoms that occur due to excessive pro-inflammatory signaling.
Depression is an illness that at its heart is a pro-inflammatory condition. So are heart disease, diabetes, irritable bowel disease, allergies, and asthma.
These days, I generally do as thorough immune system evaluation, in addition to a psychological, psychiatric, neurologic, endocrine, metabolic-nutritional evaluation to help determine the underlying causes of a person’s illness and then target them in treatment. Without the immune system evaluation, one is missing an important component to explain why a person is ill.
Dr Mariano. To give you more information i am a 23 year old male. I sleep excessively and wake up many times during the night, i also have found i have woken up with palpitations and lack of breath at times which might be related to not getting enough oxygen during sleep. When i take melatonin 2.5mg i find my sleep quality improves a lot and i sleep much less and much better quality. I also wake up feeling hungry often and find i eat something to get me back to sleep but i have realized this could be due low melatonin levels and/or this sleep problem. When i don’t take melatonin my sleep quality is always much worse.
I have also suffered some IBS symptoms. Aching stomach, pain, constipation, dry mouth, belching, and general IBS symptoms for a while which are on and off.
I generally find i have a low appetite and don’t like to eat much food in general. I eat healthily though. I avoid carbohydrates/sugars and eat vegetables, lean meats and healthy fats (coconut oil etc), and avoid fruits which are high in sugar (fructose). Wheat/dairy i avoid completely as they worsen my IBS Symptoms and cause a lot of bloating for me.
I have hashimoto’s thyroiditis and my thyroid is destroyed. I found a medication which worked for me called ERFA thyroid and i am on 4 grains of this medication my T4/T3 levels are in the high normal range and i’ve been on this medication/dosage for a few years now. The medication works great for me and with it alleviated a lot of my symptoms i’ve had since childhood which we’re thyroid related.
I have done lots of testing in the past hormone related, etc. Thyroid was low and this is treated and my melatonin was low and im taking the two hormones. All other hormones are normal.
I am interested what does the immune system evaluation comprise of?
Also when one has hashimoto’s thyroidits does it predispose a person to other related immune system abnormalities?
My definition of the mind is that the mind the sum of all of the cells in the body and their molecules that determine thought and behavior – a simple definition with enormous implications, which leads to an enormously deep and insightful understanding of nearly everything.
The immune system is a subset of the mind. The immune system is defined as the sum of all of the cells in the body and their molecules that protect the body from foreign pathogens and cancer. It recognizes self from non-self. Generally, the most important and active cells of the immune system are the white blood cells and the stem cells that give birth to them. Other cells include the microglial cells of the nervous system, liver cells which produce complement proteins, cells of the spleen, lymph nodes, mucosal cells which give off mucus and skin cells which form protective barriers, gastrointestinal cells which make protective acid, etc. Even astrocytes of the nervous system – the most numerous cells in the brain – can transformed when needed to do immune system work.
White blood cells are like soldiers. We make an enormous army of them every day. They are also potentially seriously dangerous to the other cells in the body because of the weaponry they have which includes many toxic substances such as bleach.
Generally, the immune system kills off 90% of the millions of white blood cells it creates that make antibodies or have antibodies as sensors on their cell membranes (the B-cells and T-cells), before they become active in the body. Immunologists call this the “education” of these cells. I call this a mass slaughter. It is necessary since these cells can cause the immune system to attack one’s own body – an autoimmune attack.
Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis is an autoimmune illness. This means the immune system failed to kill the rogue white blood cells that make antibodies that recognize the thyroid gland as a foreign pathogen.
Now if the immune system failed to kill off the rogue cells that cause Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, there is also a good chance it failed to kill off other rogue white blood cells. A rule of thumb is that if one has one autoimmune illness, one can have up to six of them. Thus a thorough check of the immune system is necessary to fully determine as much as practical the extent of the problem of autoimmune white blood cells.
Most of the immune system’s white blood cells are in the gastrointestinal system – generally the most important place one is exposed to foreign pathogens. Up to 90 percent of one’s white blood cells patrol the gastrointestinal system, standing just behind the cells that make up the wall of the intestines. From my point of view, irritable bowel syndrome and many gastrointestinal symptoms are signs of a possible immune system problem. Since gut immune problems are heavily monitored by the nervous system and immune system cells can signal the nervous system and vice versa, behavior is enormously influenced by gut issues.
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Romeo B. Mariano, MD, physician, psychiatristAny information provided on http://www.definitivemind.com is for informational purposes only, is not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability, is not exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment, and will change as knowledge progresses. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider before undertaking any diet, exercise, supplement, medical, or other health program.
I do sometimes experience unusual “nerve” symptoms. Like there are bugs crawling around in my stomach and on my back, arms, legs, head. I don’t know what to make of it. I sometimes have pimples on my back which feel unusual as if my immune system wasn’t able to clear it or something.
I would also say i am very sensitive to any medications. I took an antibiotic called clindamycin for a chest infection in the beginning of last year for two weeks. After this i had a lot of bowel problems for some months after. Which not a lot of people have from simply one or two courses of antibiotics.
I don’t know if this antibiotic triggered all these problems but before taking it i didn’t even have that many problems besides the sleeping problem.
Could this antibiotic cause such GI issues?
But i am also certain if i don’t sleep well these other problems all get worse… and in fact the sleeping problem could be a major factor in all of this. I know i get “nerve” symptoms if i feel stressed too.
Oops. I posted as admin.
The problem with Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis is not primarily the lack of thyroid hormone, it is primarily the activated immune system which can spread pro-inflammatory signals through out the brain and body causing impairment in function.
Thus, when I treat Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis as part of a patient’s illness, I optimize thyroid signaling and nutrition, while as best as possible control immune system proinflammatory signaling. Note that thyroid hormone does not function as a signal in a vacuume. Other signals are necessary and metabolic and nutritional factors are necessary for thyroid hormone to work.
What I want to see as one endpoint is a reduction in antithyroid peroxidase antibodies (antimicrosomal antibodies) and antithyroglobulin antibodies to the point the levels are normal.
@DrMariano 4583 wrote:
Oops. I posted as admin.
The problem with Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis is not primarily the lack of thyroid hormone, it is primarily the activated immune system which can spread pro-inflammatory signals through out the brain and body causing impairment in function.
Thus, when I treat Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis as part of a patient’s illness, I optimize thyroid signaling and nutrition, while as best as possible control immune system proinflammatory signaling. Note that thyroid hormone does not function as a signal in a vacuume. Other signals are necessary and metabolic and nutritional factors are necessary for thyroid hormone to work.
What I want to see as one endpoint is a reduction in antithyroid peroxidase antibodies (antimicrosomal antibodies) and antithyroglobulin antibodies to the point the levels are normal.
Thyroid. 2011 Aug;21(8):891-6. Epub 2011 Jul 13.
Relative vitamin D insufficiency in Hashimoto’s thyroiditis.
Tamer G, Arik S, Tamer I, Coksert D.
Source
Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Goztepe Education and Research Hospital, Istanbul, Turkey. hgtamer@yahoo.com
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Vitamin D insufficiency, defined as serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D3] lower than 30 ng/mL, has been reported to be prevalent in several autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis and type 1 diabetes mellitus. The goal of the present study was to assess whether vitamin D insufficiency is also a feature of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (HT).
METHODS:
We performed a prevalence case-control study that included 161 cases with HT and 162 healthy controls. Serum levels of 25(OH)D3, calcium, phosphorus, and parathyroid hormone were measured in all 323 subjects.
RESULTS:
The prevalence of vitamin D insufficiency in HT cases (148 of 161, 92%) was significantly higher than that observed in healthy controls (102 of 162, 63%, p < 0.0001). Among HT cases, the prevalence rate of vitamin D insufficiency showed a trend to be higher in patients with overt hypothyroidism (47 of 50, 94%) or subclinical hypothyroidism (44 of 45, 98%) than in those with euthyroidism (57 of 66, 86%), but the differences were not significant (p = 0.083).
CONCLUSION:
Vitamin D insufficiency is associated with HT. Further studies are needed to determine whether vitamin D insufficiency is a casual factor in the pathogenesis of HT or rather a consequence of the disease.Clindamycin is a very potent antibiotic. It kills so many gut probiotic bacteria that other infectious bacteria can come in and cause problems. Taking it 2 weeks is a long course with it. It is important to support one’s probiotic population during and after taking antibiotics.
Acne is in part an infection and an inflammatory condition – aside from its stimulus from androgens.
DrMariano;4583 wrote:The problem with Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis is not primarily the lack of thyroid hormone, it is primarily the activated immune system which can spread pro-inflammatory signals through out the brain and body causing impairment in function.Thus, when I treat Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis as part of a patient’s illness, I optimize thyroid signaling and nutrition, while as best as possible control immune system proinflammatory signaling. Note that thyroid hormone does not function as a signal in a vacuume. Other signals are necessary and metabolic and nutritional factors are necessary for thyroid hormone to work.
What I want to see as one endpoint is a reduction in antithyroid peroxidase antibodies (antimicrosomal antibodies) and antithyroglobulin antibodies to the point the levels are normal.
So it would be worth while for me to recheck my antithyroid antibody levels?
How can i help to control the immune systems proinflammatory signals?
MetalMX;4593 wrote:So it would be worth while for me to recheck my antithyroid antibody levels?How can i help to control the immune systems proinflammatory signals?
I periodically track antithyroid antibody levels in Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis.
Sometimes, other proinflammatory conditions – colds, allergies, other autoimmune illnesses, etc. will trigger an increase in antibody production, causing proinflammatory signaling to snowball.
For example, one of the young children I treat has both Grave’s Disease and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. Whenever he eats foods containing gluten, both thyroid illnesses get worse. And his behavior enormously deteriorates.
In general, controlling proinflammatory signals includes:
1. Identifying the source – requires testing, sometimes obscure causes may be found such as IgE receptor stimulating antibodies – which is analogous to thyroid receptor stimulating antibodies in Graves Disease. Stiff-man syndrome is another rare finding. Diabetes and obesity are common conditions which raise proinflammatory signaling. Oral estrogens increase proinflammatory signaling. Dietary gluten – with or without gluten sensitivity – increases proinflammatory signaling. Etc.
2. Once identified, specific treatment for proinflammatory signaling may be necessary – e.g. treatments for Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Psoriasis, etc.
3. Optimizing the nutrition and metabolism to promote antinflammatory effects rather than increasing inflammation. Generally, high density nutrition reduces inflammatory signaling.
4. Optimizing the endocrine system signaling to reduce inflammation.
5. Optimizing nervous system signaling to reduce inflammatory signaling. For example, excessive stress signaling leads to an increase in immune system inflammatory signaling. Many psychiatric medications have significant effects in reducing nervous system inflammatory signaling. Antidepressants, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, etc. all in part may reduce inflammation. They would not work well if an antiinflammatory effect wasn’t present.
6. Etc.
What is a good amount of time for somebody to sleep ?
This always gets me…
maybe i just oversleep due to the habit of it, and enjoying sleep.
I’ve also been using this probiotic called VSL 3# The Living Shield.
What do you think of this probiotic Dr Mariano?
It seems to have the highest concentration of good bacteria in any product in the world. 450 billion CFU per satchet.
Normal sleep when there is no stress or responsibility is about 10 hours with one waking period in the middle. When one works or goes to school or has other reponsibilities to force one to wake up early, then sleep gets crunched down to a single solid night’s sleep of about 7-8 hours. When there is too much stress, sleep is even less – but health becomes much more difficult to sustain.
VSL3 is an excellent product, though pricey. I have people take it for about 1-2 months. The amount of bacteria in it is still just a drop in the ocean compared to the number that grow in one’s gut. Thus probiotic preparations are similar to planting seeds. The more important task is to care and feed them so they multiply to even greater numbers.
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