[pmgamer18]

Here is a cut and paste of a post I sent someone about using Androgel and would be the same in your case. If you put on the gel then did your labs they can spike up very high you need to shower the morning of your labs and do them before using the gel.
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Starting on Androgel, Testim or Creams.
Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were making. So let’s say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel.

Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all you left with is what the gel is doing so lets say it’s doing 200 so you lost 150.

The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and you fall back.

Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel, with Androgel you need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread it over the area but don’t rub it in.

The other thing is it’s not getting through your skin good so you need more. If you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams don’t get through the skin and you need to switch to shots.

I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.’s that tell men to go on 5 grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don’t know much about the use of gels. Dr.’s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen and test them again in 2 weeks.
When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later.

Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell back.

[pmgamer18]

Thank you Definitiver Mind for the Birthday Email.
Today I am 69 yrs. old Thank you GOD for one more year.

[pmgamer18]

I learn about my problems from my muscle damage from having been on Statin Drugs. In the last 3 yrs my SHBG is very low 22. On my last blood test 3 weeks ago it was at 15 after reading some old posts by Dr. M I now know why my SHBG is so low.
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Low SHBG also occurs in inflammatory diseases (such as rheumatoid arthritis, etc.) – where Interleukin 1 beta reduces SHBG production. I generally assess for the presence of immune system problems since they are often at the root of mood disorders.

---

So due to such low levels of SHBG I need to treat my TRT by doing shots E3D to keep my levels up. I am also finding low SHBG makes the body make more Estradiol E2.

It’s all just on going and it helps to under stand why.

[pmgamer18]

Just an up date the Statin Drugs have crippled me I am in a lot of pain when I stand up and walk. And I need a walker to walk yet I can’t walk very long or I suffer in pain.

When I am sitting or laying down I don’t have pain as long as I don’t over do it walking.

I just had my heart checked it’s been 4 yrs I had heart bypass surgery. The Heart Dr. told me it’s a miracle my heart has recovered 100% and I could live 30 more yrs. I am 68.

I know know I will not get better from the Statin Drug damage to my muscles. But I have set my mind to learning to live with this and take each day that comes to me as a blessing.

Still my Myoglobin and CK or CPK levels are still very high.

And I can’t take Pain meds I have problems with high Estraidol levels and the pain meds slow down the AI meds I take to keep Estraidol levels down. I was needing 4 pills of Arimidex / day then switched to Aromasin and this ended up the same needed up to 4 pills / day to keep my Estraidol levels down. High Estraidol levels give me Panic Attacks.

It is the CYP3A4 levels in my liver from pain meds that dose this so I don’t take pain meds.

[pmgamer18]

For men the only good test after doing a morning fasting Cortisol blood test that shows low is a 4x’s / day Saliva test to see how the rhythm looks. It needs to be high in the morning going lower by bedtime.

I have seen a lot of 4x’s / day Cortisol Saliva tests done for men that showed there Testosterone and Estraidol levels very high when they are very low and others that were on TRT that showed them very low. You just can’t test male sex hormones using Saliva testing.

[pmgamer18]

Things are getting better taking CoQ10 evern my hands are not numb anymore. I am able to walk a short time without using a walker.

[pmgamer18]

Thanks for the reply Dr. M I will get this Myoglobin tested and I hear I should also test CK and CPK levels.

I am doing better as each day goes by today I was able to get up with out pulling my self up using my arms. I walked around with out using the walker for a shot time but the pain is still there.

[pmgamer18]

Good news this morning I am a little better called both my Heart and Family Dr. they said to give it more time my labs last March on CoQ10 were below normal. Then the next 3 labs that were done Quest did not do the CoQ10 test said the blood was not sent right. So my levels have been below normal for a long time.

This morning I could get up easy and stand without holding on to something. I still need the walker to walk but I don’t feel the panic that I am not going to make it back to my chair without falling down. I even walked to my waker coming out of the bathroom to my walker without holding on to something. In the last 4 days I could not do this.

I am better so the Dr.’s said to give it more time if it stops getting better they are going to put me in the Hosp.

I hope this keeps getting better.

I found out today your not to stop statin drugs cold and this might be why I am having a problem.
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Stopping Statins
Statins are a potent anti-inflammatory drug. The fact that statins also lower cholesterol is “irrelevant”. If you are experiencing severe side effects from a statin drug you may need to stop abruptly, but it is highly recommended that you taper off over a 3 week period.

Cut pills in 1/2
Wk 1: take that 1/2 pill every day
Wk 2: take that 1/2 pill every other day
Wk 3: take that 1/2 pill every 3rd day

[pmgamer18]

I worry your doing to much Arimidex at one time most men do good taking .25 mgs every 2 to 3 days. Men with levels above 50 pg/ml need more .5 mgs every other day. Here is a copy of a file I made on how to not go to low on Arimidex. Going to low is just as bad as being to high.
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How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it’s the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can’t get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It’s best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

[pmgamer18]

Well here is my thight if one like myself is so low on GH why would one care if it shuts down. Not doing GH messed up my heart I needed to have Heart Bypass Surgery. Dr. feel it was my low levels are them yrs of GH. As for sides sure if you do to much of it.
@mcs5309 3088 wrote:

In other words, as with all exogenous hormone use, does HGH use eventually shut down one’s own production??

The bodybuilding community has much to say back & forth on this topic, it is exhaustive to say the least. There seem to be many workarounds, but I wonder.

In addition, and no less a concern, a few of the the other side effects we read about all over the net:

cancer (if the good cells grow more, so can the bad ones)
fluid retention/hypertension
insulin resistance

Dr. M, let us know your thoughts!

[pmgamer18]

Same with me as you know 10,000 IU’s a day gets me at 82 top of rage for D is 100. I feel as long as your not over the top of the range your not going to have a problem. Some say you need vit K with D I don’t feel we need to take K if we eat right.
@hardasnails1973 3089 wrote:

What is the range
I like 65-90 range

[pmgamer18]

Hi billy3z,

I have been on TRT 29 yrs now your on a very high dose of Test C / week. Most men start with 100 mgs a week. Did you every test your Estradiol levels doing that much Test C a week I am betting your levels are very high. High levels of Estradiol in med takes away any good the TRT is doing for you. I got bad ED, could not reach an orgasm, had bad Panic Attacks, Rashes, BPH, no libido, felt hot and sweating all day and nigh even looked red on the upper parts of my body and face with sore and hard nipples.

All of this gone getting Estradiol levels down you need to get this tested I would do a Quest labs Estradiol test #4021 the range is 13 to 54 pg/ml men do best at about 20 if you over 50 you would need Arimidex to get this down .5 mgs every other day it is one half of the one mg. pill.

The first thing that came back for me doing this was my involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. If you don’t have them I lost then for over 25 yrs then your levels might be very high.

Also my Free T levels were very low until I got my Estradiol levels down.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Aging-Male_01.htm

I need a lot of T per week but I do it this way I do 80 mgs every 3 days this helps keep me leveled and holds down Estradiol levels that one gets from one big shot and helps keep my blood thinner. I also add in HCG this acts like the LH message sent to your testis that tells them to make T this gets shut down on TRT so I do 250 IU’s the day before my T shot so every 3 days I do HCG.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

So this is what I find that works and you can read about it in the last link. Get your Total T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man and keep your Estradiol levels down so you get night time and morning wood every night.

I don’t feel all the stuff going around the web about RT3 is good if you can’t fix why your RT3 is high don’t mess with it because as soon as you stop T3 only meds your RT3 is just going to go back up again. Low Cortisol levels can make RT3 high even a lot of stress will do this. Taking T3 only meds makes SHBG go up and this binds up your Free Testosterone levels add this to high Estradiol and your not going to feel good.
http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

[pmgamer18]

I did the same thing read all kinds of things even got the book Adrenal Fatigue 21st. Century. None of this worked for me I started on Isocort and when my Dr. seen how much better I was feeling he ordered Cortef for me.

In this link you will find a link to a FAQ’s I helped do at STTM forum about Adrenals read this it’s full of good info.

Also read this link it all the best parts from the book “Safe Uses of Cortisol”.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/safe-uses/

[pmgamer18]

If you have been over doing it with exercising on HC they your Adrenals never had a chance to heal. If your coming off HC slow and start to feel shaky and fatigued even sick to your stomach your not ready. Some people have had AI for so long there Adreanls will not get better. Read this FAQ’s I helped with at STTM forums in this they talk about coming off HC.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/
@marsaday1971 3005 wrote:

I have been using Hc 25mg a day for 10mths now. In that time i have been trying to get the thyroid balanced out. I have done that now by switching from NTH to T4 and T3. The T3 has made a very big difference it seems.

So i now take 112.5 mg T4 and 37.5 mgT3 per day and 25mg Hc (10/10/5)

I have been fully balanced for 11 weeks now.

So i thought i would try and come off the HC slowly and tried to reduce by 2.5mg, but my body does not like it. It notices the missed 2.5mg by the late afternoon.

What does this tell you ?

Am i weaning incorrectly or am i just not ready to do so yet?

I do a lot of exercise and sports and do not need to stress dose. 25mg Hc is all i need it seems

[pmgamer18]

What Dr. M said is about what I did before adding HGH. I am Hypopituitary and have had low GH for yrs. I am now recovering from Heart Bypass Surgery the Heart Dr. I see was an Endo and know all about my Problems with hormones he feels I had blockage to my heart from the low Hormones and the main one he felt was the Growth Hormone.

I treat my low Testosterone, Cortisol, Thyroid, Aldosterone/Renin and Ferritin levels now last Nov. I added Growth Hormone. At first I would wake up in a sweat on it about 2 weeks. I started at .3 mgs or .9 IU’s of Humatrope it comes in a 6 mg Pen. What was going on was my sugar levels were falling so my Dr. told me to take the shot in the morning for a month then try it at bedtime again this worked.

Now after on GH for about 3 months I started sweating with a high heart rate and my BP was up. Labs showed my Thyroid started working on GH and I was going hyper on 4 grains of Armour / day. We started lowering the dose to the point I was off the Armour. Then about 2 months later having good labs I started to hold a lot of water and my hands and feet were going numb.

My Dr. said the dose of GH was to high and took me off it in about 6 weeks he put me back on it but by then my TSH was up at 5.7 and Total T4 with Free T3 below mid range.
So when I went back on GH he put me on Synthroid to bring my T4’s up so far it good now and T3’s are above mid range. I am now doing .15 mgs of GH and sleep like a baby some morning my sugar is on the low side if I don’t eat some nuts or cheese before bedtime to help keep my surger levels up.

I think in my case the first time the dose was to high now I am doing great.

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