[Mags]

@wapf fan 2184 wrote:

I need help understanding fluoride. Is it a naturally occurring substance? Is my understanding correct that we do NOT need flouride? Also my 6-year old daughter has an erupting tooth that is mottled. Her dentist said it was either from too much or not enough fluoride. She has never taken fluoride supplements not used fluoridated toothpaste. So can food and water in California cause too much fluoride in her? Or can an undiagnosed thyroid problem cause the mottled tooth? Is the fluoride in food caused by those plants and animals being watered by fluoridated water or maybe because of residues of it now in our environment? I’m very confused and concerned. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light.

Hi wapf fan,
I understand you being concerned. A thyroid problem will not cause mottled teeth. Fluoride is very useful when used topically on teeth, but not so good when ingested. In large quanitities it will suppress thyroid function – which is why it was used as a hyperthyroid treatment. Certain foods have high flouride content. Black tea leaves contain naturally occuring fluoride – it is not from a polluted environment – it is just how God made it. However, the water we use to water things does contain fluoride, and yes, it does get in to our food supply. The flouride that is used in drinking water is actually toxic waste. 😮 There is a difference between natural fluoride (fluorine?) vs what is used commercially.

more information on effects of over fluoridation: http://www.scienceclarified.com/dispute/Vol-2/Does-the-addition-of-fluoride-to-drinking-water-cause-significant-harm-to-humans.html#ixzz0V44bhfLo
High levels are said to cause mottling of the teeth, deformities of the spine, joint problems, muscle wasting, neurological defects, arthritis, osteoporosis (a decrease in bone mass), hip fractures, infertility, genetic mutations, Down’s syndrome (a form of congenital mental retardation), and all forms of cancer. Lower levels are said to cause eczema, dermatitis, headache, chronic fatigue, muscular weakness, mouth ulcers, lower urinary tract infections, and the aggravation of existing allergies.

how much is toxic?:
http://www.scienceclarified.com/dispute/Vol-2/Does-the-addition-of-fluoride-to-drinking-water-cause-significant-harm-to-humans.html
In 1991, the U.S. Public Health Service reported that the range in total daily fluoride intake exceeded 6.5 mg/day. Recently, EPA data revealed that some individuals drink as much as 5.5 liters of 4.0 mg/L fluoridated water per day, which computes to a daily dose of fluoride of 22 mg/day. Such a dosage exceeds the crippling dosage of 10 to 20 mg/day published in 1993 by the National Research Council’s Board on Environmental Studies and Toxicology in Health Effects of Ingested Fluoride . The 10 to 20 mg/day dosage was associated with crippling fluorosis when ingested over a period of 10 years.
Fluoride amounts as minimal as 0.04 mg/day have been shown to cause adverse health effects.

Before you get alarmed, most communities do not fluoridate at 4.0mg/L. Most are under 1mg per liter. Although lower doses of fluoride is not fatal, it can cause health problems, and yes, dental fluorosis. The CDC can provide information on how much fluoride is in water districts thru out the US:
http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/MWF/Index.asp

where else does fluoride come from?
http://www.fluoridealert.org/f-sources.htm

What can we do? Get a water filter that filters fluoride (most don’t) and chlorine, and use toothpaste with fluoride as a topical treatment on teeth and don’t swallow it. Additional public advisory recommendation are here: http://www.fluoridealert.org/action.htm

But whether your daughter’s tooth mottling is due to too much or too little fluoride I can not say. Check here if you want more information:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/teeth/fluorosis/

I hope this helps. Sorry about your daughter’s tooth!

[Mags]

thanks for your responses and ideas. I am east coast, won’t be able to see Dr. Mariano in the foreseeable future and sure, I would love a recommendation of someone on east coast!

I did do an adrenal test a couple of weeks ago, but I haven’t gotten the results back yet. I’ve called the doctor’s office to check on status. The doctors do seem to know what they are doing/looking for, but they are not good at letting me know what it is they are doing./looking for or why they are doing it, so I have to play detective to decipher what lab work they are doing and why. I would expect more from an office which has charged me a lot of $$$$$$$. They have given me zero guidance on taking the meds.

I have read that taking calcium with thyroid meds is a no-no, so I take meds on empty stomach, and wait at least an hour before eating. I have been having a cup of coffee or caffeinated herbal (not black) tea in the morning tho (no milk). oops. But really, how the heck am I supposed to get out of bed without caffeine?? :p

Regarding the high TgAb, I am a bit confused because most research I’ve read mentions TPO way more often than TgAb for Hashimoto’s. The doctor’s office I am going to did not seem overly concerned one way or another. Actually, they didn’t say a whole lot about thyroid treatment. We spent way more time discussing the bill.

I am starting to wonder if I should see an endocrinologist. What do y’all think? Endo who is in health insurance with a reasonable reputation, or very knowledgable but arrogant and expensive doctor’s office who has good reputation but is not in insurance?

[Mags]

This is a great webite. I really have enjoyed reading through the articles and forum posts. Thank you for your generosity of time and knowledge, especially to Dr. Mariano.

In regards to the black tea discussion, it prompted remembrance of an issue with this substance of which I found out the hard way:

I was trying to eliminate coffee from my diet, so I substituted it with tea – caffeinated in the morning, decaf at night. Initially, it did calm me, but because I steeped it a long time (sometimes an hour), and drank 4-5 cups per day it became toxic. What I did not know is that black tea is very high in flouride, and fluoride toxicity can mimic or trigger hypothyroidism issues. Oddly enough, many of the symptoms are the same. For a non-thyroid patient it might not be so bad, but during a hypo episode, it was enough to lay me up in bed for 3 days straight.

Herbal teas are not high in fluoride because they are not made from a tea leaf, but are made from herbs. Black teas include green tea and white tea.

Here are some initial links for reference…too much information to include in this post.

Symptom comparison:
http://www.poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/symptoms.html

Flouride in Food:
http://www.poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/f-_in_food.html

First-ever government review of fluoride/thyroid toxicology shows risk:
http://www.pr-inside.com/first-ever-government-review-of-fluoride-thyroid-r596428.htm

Estimated “Threshold” Doses for Skeletal Fluorosis:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/bone/fluorosis/intake/dose.html

Joint pain? It could be fluorosis:
[url] http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/Health__Science/Joint_pain_It_could_be_fluorosis/articleshow/825569.cms%5B/url%5D

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