[machinehead]

Toremifene: full testicles, subjectively supraphysiological test levels at least initially (I’ve never taken exogenous test to compare), insane training intensity during week 2, great focus (thyroid related?), great sleep, and go-for-it mentality for a few days only, and less skin down there at a dose above 30mg. No change in libido. Dose (liquid form so who knows): 120mg for 4-5 days, 90mg for a week, 60 for two weeks, 30 for a week.

Clomid: very few subjective effects primarily in the gym and after, e.g. feeling high and not tired-and-depressed after, great muscle gains that disappeared upon discontinuation, no change in testicle size or mood or mentatility although the first week at 50-100mg I got extremely happy for a day and got some tracers that disappeared very quickly as the dose went down. No change in libido. Dose (in liquid again): 50-100 for a week, 25mg per day for 4 weeks, 25 EOD for 2 weeks.

Nolva: zero subjective effects at any dose and potency.

The closest OTC thing that has given me the mental and performance effects of Toremifene is Sustain Alpha.

I don’t know about conversion but probably 25mg of Clomid is close to 60mg of Toremifene subjectively.

Both experiments were conducted “clean” and were not preceded by androgen use.

[machinehead]

Do you have problems falling asleep or staying asleep or never feeling rested regardless of number of hours spent sleeping? I have the last two and here is what I have liked taking. By the way, melatonin by itself doesn’t work at any amount, maybe because I was taking too much.

This one I like the most but it worked well only for a week:

http://www.forceofgreenlabs.com/TF1LabelInfo.html

They have a female version too:

http://www.forceofgreenlabs.com/WF1LabelInfo.html

If you decide to buy the above try code lb001, it may still work and is good for $5 off.

This is probably the best single-application that I have taken, meaning that I feel amazing the day after first use at only one cap but repetitive use doesn’t lead to much improvement over reference. It has only 0.5 mg of melatonin per cap, by the way:

http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_Details.aspx?cid=37&pid=6882

This one is also good but not as good as the above although sleep is actually very satisfying on it but there more to ask for once you are awake:

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_ib003.htm

A new one that I haven’t tried but most likely will is this:

http://www6.netrition.com/alri_comatose.html

Overall, everything works for a very short time for me and then I am back to normal which is not good but I should not be complaining anyway. Rotating those may be helpful and I’ll try that after my vacation this week.

I almost forgot that I will also try this, a combo of tea and scents:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/Slumber_Stack.html

[machinehead]

@Shaolin 830 wrote:

Dr. M what do you mean by progesterone being a 5-AR ?? I didnt quite understand that

I think he meant to say “a 5-AR inhibitor.”

[Author]

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