[clloyd]

Question:

I know fish oil has done wonders for me in many ways. I finally got my wife to start taking at least 2grams of fish oil with breakfast (it has 300mg of EPA and DHA per 1000mg). She has been doing this for a few months.

About 10 days ago I told her to go up to 3grams in the morning with breakfast. Coincidently, for about a week, she has been feeling fatigued, a little nausea and dizziness at times? Could this be because she upped her fish oil dose? If so, why?

[clloyd]

I take Lexapro because it seems to have the least side effects. The only other one that may be beneficial because it is not as strong as Lexapro as an SSRI is Wellbutrin. However, Wellbutrin is also a SNRI. Some people prone to anxiety have problems with it. Many love it. I have never taken it.

@Downthelanetheycome 2475 wrote:

I have taken only one SSRI and that was lexapro. The level of agitation was so intense I had to get off of it. Even on a reduced dose I had very high anxiety and agitation as well as insomnia. I have had some relief since starting TRT therapy and changing my thyroid protocol 5 months ago. Unfortunately I still need help. Is there an SSRI that is not as agitating as Lexapro? I have been terrified to try another one due to this experience. Thanks

[clloyd]

And hince the reason I am flying out to see Dr. Mariano for the first time in January 🙂 Flying from Louisiana.

[clloyd]

You’re right. Serotonin Syndrome is too strong of a statement. I take 10mg Lexapro everyday. One time I took a trazadone to help me sleep. The following day I was a zombie. I had no drive, no creative or strategic thinking, etc. Basically low dopamine symptoms. Another consideration could be taking Buspar to help with anxiety. A lot of times it is hard to determine between anxiety, depression, and that overwhelming feeling. It’s a catch 22 because when I had that zombie day, I actually became more anxious and overwhelmed because I couldn’t function. More of a reason why all the neurotransmitters play a part in your sense of well being.

@The450Man 2149 wrote:

i doubt serotonin syndrome would be an issue here.

But you do raise a point I diddnt think of. Since the antagonists are blocking serotonin from activating said receptors, it can only go somewhere else. Heavy bombardment of 5ht1? 5ht4 and up?

And about the dopamine.. the main issue from ssri’s and dopamine is activation of 5ht2 receptors inhibiting dopamine release. I cant remember the subtypes but its in that relm lol… i think.

[clloyd]

HAN,

Is Isocort still an option for people? I just started 3 per day and feel better. I am off peptides for now because I believe I am too sensitive to its cortisol sides. I believe a negative feedback has created a hypocortisol situation for me. I am waiting on my saliva kit.

@hardasnails1973 2138 wrote:

YOu need to have your adrenals supported at the appropiate times. Cortef would be appropiate in this case.

[clloyd]

450,

Although it seems logical, I would hold off on that. I am in a similiar situation as you. The problem is, not only could this be a dangerous combination (serotonin syndrome), but your dopamine could drop make you feel like a zombie. Are you on an SSRI now? If not, I would give Lexapro a shot before this combo. I have had zero sex sides on Lexapro.

@The450Man 2132 wrote:

Remeron+Trazadone+ssri

reasoning=

-tired of anxiety and eating klonopin like candy when i go out
-from what ive read…. most therapeutic effects of ssri’s stems from 5ht1a activation, undesirable effects come from activation of 5ht2 5ht3 receptors (possibly more from the other handful of known receptors)

Blocking 5ht2a, 5ht2b, 5ht2c, 5ht3 receptors should “push” more of the serotonin towards the 5ht1 receptor(s) and prevent common ssri side effects like sexual dysfunction and nausea allowing a lower dose of an ssri.

granted i know this is way more complex then what im making it…

[clloyd]

@Pat Quigley 2069 wrote:

I’m happy for you that you are not depressed or anxious. I am not sure of the point that you are making.

Maybe I am misinterpreting the article. But…In my case, Lexapro has helped me control stress and anxiety. If my stress and anxiety gets out of hand, I get depressed. So, in my case, even if Lexapro is not treating my depression directly, it is helping me indirectly by controlling my stress and anxiety.

[clloyd]

This is an interesting study. However, in my case, if I can control anxiety and stress, I am less likely to get depressed (almost in all cases).

[clloyd]

Thanks Phil. It’s been a while since you and I talked from Meso (I am male). I started TRT over a year ago. It has kept me away from major depression. I used to check E2 all the time. Even when in check I had to take xanax once in a while. It’s probably time again. I take xanax and ambien to sleep. Problem with xanax is that it interferes with restorative sleep. The following is my protocal. I haven’t done any assays in awhile. I have also lost energy and motivation the past couple of weeks and trying to decide what assays to check, I have always had low cortisol and DHEA-S, but if I supplement either I get anxious.

60 mg test cyp – twice a week
250iu hCG EOD
.25 liquidex after cyp shots
80 mcg GHRP-6/80 mcg mod GRF every night before bed

I also take
10mg lexapro every day
intermittent xanax
10-20mg adderal every day except weekends

Thanks for the reply

[clloyd]

I had a Dr. tell me that it can take one year before the brain totally re-compensates itself from long-term use of SSRI’s. I have tried to wean several times. I once was off Lexapro for 6 months and had to get back on. Not to discourage you, but if a few months from now you start getting anxiety and depression, don’t be stubborn like me and wait until you breakdown before getting on again…good luck, and I hope you are more fortunate with getting off Lexapro than I was.

@Hairfixer777 2021 wrote:

I recently weaned myself off of Lexapro. Before Lexapro I had been taking a long list of SSRI’s over the past 14 yrs starting with Prozac. Now that I have been properly dx with adrenal fatigue and being hypothyroid, along with the addition of bio identical hormones, I weaned myself off of Lexapro. I did it very slowly and it took 4 month but I had no withdrawl symptoms. I do not feel any depression or anxiety.

My question is this: Since I took an SSRI over the past 14 yrs, and am now off of them, will the medication have any residual effects? How long will it take (if any) for my brain to become balanced once again all on it’s own, without the use of an antidepressant? Does it take the brain time to collect itself, so to speak?

The only anti depressive med left is Wellbutrin. I take 150 mg twice daily. That will be the next drug to wean off of but for now I have had so many changes that I need to wait a bit. Is it just a hard to wean off the class of drug such as Wellbutrin?

Thanks!;)

[clloyd]

pmgamer,

I agree with taking straight HGH, but what about peptides? I am referring to the long thread on an other board. And I am talking about low doses. It seems that in low doses it has got my HPTA going again (I still think damaged from SSRI’s). I will make a switch back to GHRP-6 again to give it a shot (since GHRP-2 is still not being clinically used for humans). GHRP/GHRH seems to be the only thing that has continued to give me a sense of well being. I do realize I am taking some risks in that the therapy is so new.

Besides sense of well being, one positive I can speak with conviction that has improved my body —- tendons! Before, if I ever went out and played a fast twitch sport like tennis, there was about a 50% chance I would pull a muscle or cramp up. Now, I am full speed and have had zero problems. It’s almost like it’s keeping my body lubricated.

@pmgamer18 1786 wrote:

I am hypopituitary and need most or all the hormones but Growth Hormones I have found like my Dr. as told me time and time again if you get your hormones leveled off good your Growth Hormone levels will come up mine did. I just don’t want to go on HGH unless I need it bad even my Heart Dr. told me if my levels were lower he would tell me to go on it but my levels came up when I got my hormones leveled. GH has some dam bad sides that on can get.

[clloyd]

The problem is that most of what is out there on the Net refers to abuse of amphetamines. I am not sure if reasonable clinical doses of Adderall would pose the same threat. However, there may be a withdrawal period from any dose.

@The450Man 1599 wrote:

well it is a amphetamine and i beleive amphetamines are neurotoxic to some degree… so damaging neurons=depletion of neurotransmitters ??

[clloyd]

Can you provide a link to what you read? I have taken Adderall for years but have lowered my dose. I do believe it has induced excess norepinephrine in me (more than I would have liked). I also believe that my body has come accustom to its stimulation of dopamine. OVerall, the drug has helped me focus and definitely helps adult ADD. I have not been able to get off completely though. There is some complexities that are too long to post (adrenals, etc.).

@chaos 1546 wrote:

I just read that adderall can deplete some neurotransmitters.

Is there any truth to this?

Is there anything one can do to avoid this?

[clloyd]

This is one of my explorations into one day solving this mystery. After starting TRT (test +hcg) over a year ago, my pych meds starting lowering in doses..but not completely. In an effort to prove that my long term use of SSRI’s and adderall on HPA and/or HPTA, besides wanting the physical byproducts of HRT, my mid took a priority. After about 1 year into HRT, I had tapered off Lexapro completely. I had Xanax when needed. I had dropped to 10mg Adderall XR from 20-30mg. And still had to pop an Ambien once in a while. I got a major client and led a company as a Chief Restructuring Office into and out of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, HArdest thing I ever had to do. After about a month off Lexapro (with everything fine), I had a breakdown of overwhelming feelings that kept me up until 3am crying and wanting to punchs walls. I was depressed about being depressed. I got back on 10mg LExapro that night. It reminded me of what Bravermen said about Serotinin being responsible for keep your head together so to speak. It’s genetic in my familiy, so I may have to accept it. However, my recent 1 month experience into low doses of GHRP+GHRH has seemed to start to reverse these patterns. Less Xanax, still being conservative on Lexapro, and probably on 10mg of Adderall because of a mental addiction.

Dr. Mariano, have you done any work into the overall sense of well bring that seems to not go away with GHRP+GHRH. My only theory is a repair or restart of HPA or HPTA. I don’t have adrenal fatigue symptoms right now. This is the best I have ever felt. I can’t take GHRP too late because of the cortisol spike. In Summary: I too don’t won’t to give up adequate levels of dopamine because of SSRI’s. I am hoping that moderate exogenous testosterone use and adderall help with dopamine. But there is no doubt that sometimes the norepinephrine over powers it –> creating more anxiety, etc. What I call the Elvis protocal. Slegeline was interesting, but I am not taking it now that I am back on Lexepro. I also considered bromocriptine.

@DrMariano 1100 wrote:

Selegiline is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. This means it will cause an increase in serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine signaling by reducing degradation of the signal. However, the increase in signaling is not equal. MAO inhibitors increase serotonin more than dopamine and norepinephrine. Selegiline becamse useful in Parkinson’s disease because it significantly increased dopamine, notwithstanding also increasing serotonin more. The serotonin increase is a side effect when treating Parkinson’s disease. However, when treating other conditions, the serotonin increase becomes an important consideration. For example, when attempting to improve libido by increasing dopamine, the serotonin increase will suppress libido directly as well as impairing erectile function directly, in addition to its indirect effects of reducing norepinephrine and dopamine signaling.

Standard stimulants like Ritalin and Adderall increase both dopamine and norepinephrine. The increase in norepinephrine may pose a problem. It may contribute to HPA Axis disregulation with cortisol signaling loss. It may increase pro-inflammatory signaling, which would then reduce motivation along with the cortisol signaling loss. It may increase anxiety, which would turn down libido. Etc. They are best used in very low doses as needed, just like Viagra, at the time of sex to help avoid the negative effects, when used primarily for sexual dysfunction. Of course, after use, insomnia is a problem when taken at night since norepinephrine is the primary signal for wakefulness. Couple this with the surge of norepinephrine to trigger an orgasm, and you have a recipe for post-coital stress and anxiety rather than relaxation.

[clloyd]

Well…I had it all screwed up 🙂 Thanks Phil for staying so active. And I am so glad your health is doing better!!!

@pmgamer18 1489 wrote:

I have nothing to do with putting this forum together but I send everyone I talk to here.

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