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I agree. I am not worrying about stuff like this question now.
You are a perfect example of what you said, so I take your advice wholeheartedly. Reading through some of your past posts on diff. forums whrn you were in your hell you definitely seemed to make it worse by worrying about every little thing (there seem to be lots of guys like this on the forums, and approaching it this way never seems to end well). You seem to have found heath and peace recently and it definitely seems to be linked to not worrying about it THAT much (but still doing what is necessary and reasonable/not obsessive).
@hardasnails1973 3017 wrote:
I know you are not feeling well, but do not be like most people and start drawing strawls or throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks. Raw food diets are harsh on digestive tract and cause greater irritation. Your better off lightly steaming them. If you are going to eat raw meat you are out of your mind because of the bacteria that is found in even organic meat needs to be cooked to remove. If its not the bacteria from the meat then its from the people that are not washing there hands that are handling it. I talked to one of the patients about this and told him that you are just asking for trouble. Your system is already compromised why add insult to injury? Jack lemmon started that fad. Just eat a nice balanced diet, get plenty of sunshine, good sleep, practice mediatation and stress reduction. Too many people add undue stress worrying what they can and can not do. Eventually they become prisoner because of their own doing and phobias
Are you in agreement with me though, that pretty much all of my lab values corrspond to just years of malnourishment and overexercise? Studies of ARMY rangers being out through camp and exposed to malnourishment had pretty much the same patterns of thyroid, adrenal, and sex hormones as I have now.
And when you say to nutritionally evaluate me would that involve something the nutreval test or ONE?
ANd would it be wise to try and put me on some type of testosterone replacement therapy since I am experiencing so man y negative ffeedbacks from the malnourishment (I only have a year to get as healthy as I can) and then sometime down the road try a PCT protocol and see where my levels come out (after my hormones have been at a more optimal level for a length of time an I have gained weight)? WOuld testosterone help with repairing and restoring faster what the anorexia damaged?
I know time and food will be the main thing that will heal me. I am just worried now I will feel like garbage forever, never be able to become muscular, etc.
One thing I was mainly worried about (not being able to poop normally again on my own) is already showing some progress after only 3-4 weeks of eating a minimum of 3000 calories a day. Hopefully my body just shut off my colon due to the malnutrition and with time it will start the factory up again (seems most likely….my gastroparesis and bloating after every single meal are now basically gone)
Other tests
Celiacs
gliadin IGG………..13 High (0-10)
gliadin IGA…………1 (0-10)TTG IGA…… <1 (0-4)
ENDOMY IGA…….negative
TOTAL IGA…….139 (44-441)Results may support a diagnosis of celiac disease but are not specific.
IgG serological markers for celiac isease detected.
AGA IgG elevations with IgA deficiency indicates that celiac disease is probable. AGA IgG elevations with normal total IgA occur in normal individuals as well as other GI conditions. HLA typing may be helpful.
T3, REVERSE 436 90-350
ferritin 107.8 (22-322ng/dl)Also attached a cortisol stress test
All pretty much correlates with values associated with eating disorders/excessive exercise
I have come to accept the fact that I had an eating disorder of some kind. While I never starved myself, I way overexercised and didnt eat near enough to fuel my activity. Over time it took its toll and my bowels were the first to go!
I hovered around a weight of 120 lbs for about 1.5 to two years and now seeing a psychiatrist as well as gaining a solid 0.5-1 lbs a week. The past 4 days I have gone on my own in the morning to some degree, and have been relyying on enemas less and less. I am only up to 124 now but I am already feeling better and seeing small progress.
WHat I am worried about now is the testosterone. In anorexic males it is very low, and i seems to rise back up with weight gain, but usually doesnt ever return to normal, and at best reaches low normal (most studies I have read have observed this, even after several years of follow up following weight restoration). While I never lost extremem amoutns of weight, and the most I ever weighed was around 135 lbs, I have hovered around 120 for so long I am now scared that my testosterone will be shot for the rest of my life. I know of several other males in my same situation who after years of feeling like crap even after weight restoration had to finally go on trt (I would rather do this then feel bad with low t).
Have you ever worked with, or can you comment on eating disorders and testosterone? I have been granted a year off to get better before attending medical school, and Dr Crisler will be attempting to get my test going again on its own via some methods (including me gaining weight obviously), but if it comes to it I may have start T injections. I would prefer feeling good again and being able to be the best I can in medical school while taking T shots, then having various aspects of my life suffer due to lower testosterone.
Thank you Dr. M.
More
“Functional Hypogonadism With High Athletic Stress And Low T”
According to research presented at the Endocrine Society’s annual meeting, “males presenting with high athletic stress or weight loss, coupled with low testosterone, may signal the rise of a new disorder — functional hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism.”
In a study of seven patients and 35 healthy matched controls, researchers found that the “patients had a lower average weight compared to controls (64.1 kg versus 79.9 kg, P<0.01). They also had a lower body mass index (20.7 versus 24.9, P<0.01) and a lower percentage of body fat (9.8% versus 17.6%, P<0.01)," in addition to "lower serum testosterone…(168 ng/dL versus 534 ng/dL, P<0.001), lower serum estradiol (12.4 pg/ml versus 37.5 pg/ml, P<0.001), and lower serum leutinizing hormone (LH) (7.2 IU/L versus 9.9 IU/L, P<0.05)."
ENDO: Pursuit of Six Pack Abs May Trigger New Malady
Medical News: ENDO: Pursuit of Six Pack Abs May Trigger New Malady – in Meeting Coverage, ENDO from MedPage TodaySAN DIEGO — Males presenting with high athletic stress or weight loss, coupled with low testosterone, may signal the rise of a new disorder — functional hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism.
Just as women whose bodies are under stress from excessive exercise, weight loss, or psychological stress can experience hypothalamic amenorrhea, a seven-patient series suggests that a similar phenomenon may exist among men undergoing similar kinds of stress, Andrew Dwyer, MD, of Massachusetts General Hospital, said during a poster session here at the annual meeting of the Endocrine Society.
“We saw some male patients who all have a similar type of presentation in terms of one or more of this [stress] triad, and presented with low testosterone,” Dwyer explained. The patients all had normal puberty and a normal testicular size, but all presented with “vague, non-specific symptoms” of low testosterone, including absent morning erections, low energy level, fatigue, decreased athletic performance, and decreased libido, he said.
“Interestingly, two of these patients had female family members with amenorrhea, which made us think maybe there’s a connection,” Dwyer continued.
To further study this phenomenon, the patients were recalled to the hospital, where they underwent detailed genotyping and phenotyping, including measurements of reproductive and metabolic hormones, an overnight frequent sampling study of leutinizing hormone, and DEXA scan for body composition. The investigators also recruited 35 age-matched healthy adults as controls.
The seven patients had a lower average weight compared to controls (64.1 kg versus 79.9 kg, P<0.01). They also had a lower body mass index (20.7 versus 24.9, P<0.01) and a lower percentage of body fat (9.8% versus 17.6%, P<0.01).
In terms of their biochemical characteristics, the patients had lower serum testosterone compared with controls (168 ng/dL versus 534 ng/dL, P<0.001), lower serum estradiol (12.4 pg/ml versus 37.5 pg/ml, P<0.001), and lower serum leutinizing hormone (LH) (7.2 IU/L versus 9.9 IU/L, P<0.05).
The patients also had lower pulse frequency, lower mean LH amplitude, and lower serum FSH, but none of those numbers approached statistical significance, according to the investigators.
Despite their low testosterone levels, six of the seven patients had LH pulse patterns, frequency, and amplitude that were no different from controls, Dwyer said. However, the seventh patient had four hours of no pulses, then a burst of three pulses, then no pulses for the remaining four hours, a pattern that normally occurs when boys first enter puberty.
“It’s as if this patient is recapitulating an early- to mid-pubertal LH pulse secretion pattern,” he said. “He’s 17, he went through normal puberty, he’s done and he’s virilized, but with the stress of exercise and the weight loss, perhaps the stress tipped him back into the nocturnal pulse pattern.”
Dwyer noted that after the patients had been tested, one of them sustained a heel injury and had to stop training for a while. “He gained six pounds, and we measured his testosterone level, and serially, it stayed normal,” he noted. “So with just enough removal of stress…he was able to swing back into normal testosterone production.”
Another patient who decreased his training upon the researchers’ recommendation was also retested and his testosterone level was up into the low end of the normal range, said Dwyer.
The researchers are calling the possible new disorder functional hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. “In Boston, there are lots of marathon runners and collegiate rowers who exercise a lot and don’t exhibit these symptoms,” he said. “So what is it about these seven men that make them different from vast majority of superexerciser lean guys?”
The investigators hypothesize that these men may harbor mutations in genes that are involved in GnRH androgyny or reproductive access such that with the right stressor, that can tip them into hypogonadism, but if you remove the stressor they tip back,” said Dwyer.
Rick Dorin, MD, chief of endocrinology at the University of New Mexico, in Albuquerque, said the study was very interesting.
“I see a painfully large amount of hypogonadism in in my clinical practice at the Veterans Affairs Hospital,” said Dorin, who was not involved in the study. “We see a lot of hypogonadism due to other factors, but not in such young men. This is raising the possibility that the [hypothalamic amenorrhea] in women athletes — that a comparable thing goes on in young men. They’ve got provocative findings in a small number of patients.”
Primary source: The Endocrine Society
Source reference: NR Chavan, AA Dwyer, PW Butler, MT Collins, GP Sykiotis, KW Keefe, SB Seminara, L Plummer, WF Crowley, N Pitteloud. “Male functional hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (MFHH): A distinct clinical entity?” ENDO 2010; Abstract Book, P2-462Some interesting reads regarding my situation
I dont know if through the chronic over exxercising/low weight I managed to throw off my HPA axis or what. I am scheduled to see Dr Crisler either this week or next.
Hopefully addressing thyroid/adrenal problems will, along with time, be all that is required, but how likely o you guys think it is I will need to try a re-start of my HPA axis or any type of hormonal treatment?
Got some more test results back, input welcome
Test Name Flag Result Ref Range Units Graph Info
LH LOW 0.8 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
Cortisol HIGH 20.3 2.3-19.4 ug/dL
ACTH, Plasma 23.9 7.2-63.3 pg/mL
FSH 2.7 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
progenelone, serum 53 (23-173 ng/dl)
ferritin 107.8 (22-322ng/dl)This is a response I got from another member on the forum who referred me to this site.
“I am sorry I did not get to this I had people here from out of town a death in the family.
I see your problem all the time young men over doing it working out and exercising. Your LH and FSH are very low with low Testosterone is telling me you have shut down your pituitary or hypothalamus.
Now your Estradiol levels are very low because your Testosterone is so low you make Estradiol from Testosterone.
To make sure this is what happened you need an MRI on your Pituitary to rule out a tumor. Have you every had a head injury this can do this also. I am Hypopituitary due to a head injury. In my case my Testosterone is low with my Cortisol my Adrenals work just don’t get told to work. My TSH messages are still sent from my Pituitary I am off Thyroid meds and my TSH went up to 5.7.
If you go on TRT Testosterone meds this will shut you down even more and you can end up on this for life.
You can do a Clomid or HCG Stim. test to see if your testis still work and if they do just take HCG this will act like the LH and make your Testis make Testosterone and not shut you down for life. As you fix what is wrong later on you can come off the HCG and see if your body jumps back in and makes it’s own Testosterone. Having low Testosterone will stress your Adrenals and you end up with them over worked.
You need to see a good Dr. for this one I know for sure that can fix is you Dr. John in MI. men fly or drive out to see him they only need to see him once to get treated the rest he can do by phone. Or see if one of your Dr.’s will work with him over the phone to test and treat you he dose this also.
http://www.allthingsmale.com
He has a forum you can to join and post your labs and get some input from the Dr.’s at his site that are sick like you.
http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/for … ay.php?f=2I feel what is wrong with you is you over did it exercising and working out then you got sick and kept this up shutting down your hormones.
Stop doing this exercising until you figure out what is wrong and what you need to fix it. If you Adrenals are over worked doing this will make them worse.
You need not go on Testosterone meds because your brain will shut you down for ever and you will need it for life. You can get your Testosterone levels up with HCG doing 100 IU’s in a shot everyday. But see Dr. John
Read this link in this is the Clomid or HCG stim. test.
http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdfWe have been helping a young boy 16 that did what you did go get down in a weight class for state Wrestling but his partents would not get him to the right kind of Dr. for a dam long time.
With low Thyroid your stomach will not digest your food right you need to first see how your Cortisol levels look if low fix this first then do Thyroid you need Cortisol to carry the Thyroid hormones out of your blood in to your cells if your levels are to low the Thyroid meds will just build up in your blood and make you sicker.”
