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Dr. M. – You have discussed reasons why certain hormones are high and/or low and as I look at mine I cant figure out what is going on. I am consistently high total t….usually in the 850 – 950 range in the am, low thyroid (free t3) around 230 – 260, high SHBG 60 – 70 range, low Estradiol…around 10, last test said <2 and low cortisol/dhea....i have lots of symptoms but some of them are not typical hypothyroid. Here they are in order of importance, to me anyway....
1. Low Libido/No Morning Erections/No Sexual Thoughts
2. Fatigue/Somehow seems to be related to Hypoglycemia…I feel really good after a sugery type snack or caffeine but then crash soon after.
3. Joint Pain…In my fingers, wrists, shoulder and hip joints.
4. Slow recovery time from working out.
5. Stomach issues, constipation and excessive gas.
6. Brain Fog….has gotten worse, I used to have close to a photographic memory, helped me get through college and grad school with very little studying. Now I cant even remember peoples names and sometimes cant recall a basic word I am looking for, if that makes sense.
7. Terrible sleep.I have hashimotos…at least I think I do, elevated TPO antibodies. Other than not real sure what else. Normal Ferritin, Liver Function etc. I am not taking anything other than a little of the Lugol iodine formula to see if it will help but havent noticed. Whatever is going on is not effecting my mood at all. I am not depressed at all but do deal with anxiety sometimes. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. This is a great forum by the way.
When first dealing with your issue I notice that you have alot of intestinal issues. When this is first noted I would recommend going to enterolabs and getting a stool SIGA done to check for celiac. I am starting to run into a lot of hidden celiacs since running food allergies test and checking for antibodies. Celiac and other autoimmune disorders (hashimotos) go hand and hand. Given the fact that your SHBG is so high this can point more to fact of possible starvation from gastrointestinal issues or malfunctioning liver. High SHBG may also reflect insulin imbalances resulting if the intestinal tract is not intact. You could have an hidden infection that may potentially causing depletion of adrenal reserve. In cases that I have run into many of the one with Hashimoto’s have an adrenal related component. One needs to have proper evaluation of hormones, functioning intestinal tract (upper and lower endoscopy), life styles, proper balanced nutrient dense foods, good sleep hygiene, good positive out look on life to feel well. I just had a case of a young man that had all low hormones wanting cortef, TRT, thyroid treatment. When looking at his blood work I notice his iron levels where low normal. With further investigation before using cortef we had him go to a GI Dr and still waiting results. From his eating habits we can speculate that he is losing blood internally as his iron levels, saturation where low, ferritin was normal but was dropping at a fast rate from last blood test. He is know getting a full GI work up to rule all this out but from his evaluation we think there is celiac, gastritis, or small bacteria over growth that may becausing the depletion of cortisol. Another huge factor that stuck out was that he has gingivitis which will also deplete ones adrenals as well. As you can see there could be many root causes of things that need further investigation. I can bank your vitamin D levels are low because every person from Texas I have ran into have had <25 ng/dl vitamin D 25 oh levels.
I will know about the Vitamin D on Friday when I go to see the DO and get my lab results. I am not sure about Celiacs or any of that. Right now I am having hypo symptoms, mainly low libido, constipation, fatigue and joint pain (especially in my fingers and wrists).
@hardasnails1973 1133 wrote:
When first dealing with your issue I notice that you have alot of intestinal issues. When this is first noted I would recommend going to enterolabs and getting a stool SIGA done to check for celiac. I am starting to run into a lot of hidden celiacs since running food allergies test and checking for antibodies. Celiac and other autoimmune disorders (hashimotos) go hand and hand. Given the fact that your SHBG is so high this can point more to fact of possible starvation from gastrointestinal issues or malfunctioning liver. High SHBG may also reflect insulin imbalances resulting if the intestinal tract is not intact. You could have an hidden infection that may potentially causing depletion of adrenal reserve. In cases that I have run into many of the one with Hashimoto’s have an adrenal related component. One needs to have proper evaluation of hormones, functioning intestinal tract (upper and lower endoscopy), life styles, proper balanced nutrient dense foods, good sleep hygiene, good positive out look on life to feel well. I just had a case of a young man that had all low hormones wanting cortef, TRT, thyroid treatment. When looking at his blood work I notice his iron levels where low normal. With further investigation before using cortef we had him go to a GI Dr and still waiting results. From his eating habits we can speculate that he is losing blood internally as his iron levels, saturation where low, ferritin was normal but was dropping at a fast rate from last blood test. He is know getting a full GI work up to rule all this out but from his evaluation we think there is celiac, gastritis, or small bacteria over growth that may becausing the depletion of cortisol. Another huge factor that stuck out was that he has gingivitis which will also deplete ones adrenals as well. As you can see there could be many root causes of things that need further investigation. I can bank your vitamin D levels are low because every person from Texas I have ran into have had <25 ng/dl vitamin D 25 oh levels.
@InvestmentBanker 1138 wrote:
I will know about the Vitamin D on Friday when I go to see the DO and get my lab results. I am not sure about Celiacs or any of that. Right now I am having hypo symptoms, mainly low libido, constipation, fatigue and joint pain (especially in my fingers and wrists).
Along with every thing else you need to get to competent Dr about thyroid issue. If antibodies are high then one needs to be properly treat accordingly. What are they waiting for? One should also rule out adrenal insufficiency before implementing thyroid medication because it can make matters worse.
Is there consensus on proper treatment if antibodies are present?
@hardasnails1973 1139 wrote:
Along with every thing else you need to get to competent Dr about thyroid issue. If antibodies are high then one needs to be properly treat accordingly. What are they waiting for? One should also rule out adrenal insufficiency before implementing thyroid medication because it can make matters worse.
@InvestmentBanker 1129 wrote:
Dr. M. – You have discussed reasons why certain hormones are high and/or low and as I look at mine I cant figure out what is going on. I am consistently high total t….usually in the 850 – 950 range in the am, low thyroid (free t3) around 230 – 260, high SHBG 60 – 70 range, low Estradiol…around 10, last test said <2 and low cortisol/dhea….i have lots of symptoms but some of them are not typical hypothyroid. Here they are in order of importance, to me anyway….
1. Low Libido/No Morning Erections/No Sexual Thoughts
2. Fatigue/Somehow seems to be related to Hypoglycemia…I feel really good after a sugery type snack or caffeine but then crash soon after.
3. Joint Pain…In my fingers, wrists, shoulder and hip joints.
4. Slow recovery time from working out.
5. Stomach issues, constipation and excessive gas.
6. Brain Fog….has gotten worse, I used to have close to a photographic memory, helped me get through college and grad school with very little studying. Now I cant even remember peoples names and sometimes cant recall a basic word I am looking for, if that makes sense.
7. Terrible sleep.I have hashimotos…at least I think I do, elevated TPO antibodies. Other than not real sure what else. Normal Ferritin, Liver Function etc. I am not taking anything other than a little of the Lugol iodine formula to see if it will help but havent noticed. Whatever is going on is not effecting my mood at all. I am not depressed at all but do deal with anxiety sometimes. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. This is a great forum by the way.
If low thyroid hormone is the only problem (and it is definitely not in nearly everyone I see), then all of the symptoms you mention may be due to low thyroid hormone either directly through its effects on cellular metabolism or indirectly through effects on the other signaling systems.
The reason many people can’t see this is that they see things only one step ahead of time. It is like the game of chess. In chess, when most beginners can see primarily one or two steps ahead. Thus they cannot see formations in the game that occur 3 to 8 moves ahead. A grandmaster in chess can see ahead by up to 32 moves ahead. Another analogy is juggling. Most people can learn to juggle two balls. But it is a huge order of complexity when one has to juggle 20 balls at a time.
All one has to do is to think what other systems become affected when thyroid hormone becomes low – e.g. dopamine, norepinephrine, testosterone, estrogen, serotonin, GABA, etc. It is these secondary effects and further downstream effects that occur like a cascade that can cause the symptoms you list.
Does anything stand out to you Dr. M? Just got these in today. D.O. told me to get back on my armour and take a couple supplements….dhea, fish oils, adrenal extract, Vitamin D3.
CBC With Differential/Platelet:
ALL WITHIN NORMAL RANGE
Comp. Metabolic Panel:
ALL NORMAL EXCEPT…
Glucose, Serum 64 LOW (65-99 mg/dL)
Creatinine, Serum 1.30 HIGH (.76-1.27 mg/dL)Lipid Panel:
Cholesterol, Total 159 (100-199 mg/dL)
Triglycerides 103 (0-149 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol 33 LOW (>39 mg/dL)
LDL Cholesterol 105 HIGH (0-99 mg/dL)
VLDL Cholesterol Calc 21 (5-40 mg/dL)Thyroid Panel:
TSH 2.310 (.45-4.5 uIU/mL)
Thyroxine T4 7.3 (4.5-12 ug/dL)
T4, Free (Direct) 1.35 (.61-1.76 ng/dL)
T3 Uptake 36 (24-39%)
Free Thyroxine Index 2.6 (1.2-4.9)
Triiodothyronine T3 109 (85-205 ng/dL)
Triiodothyronine, Free,Serum 2.34 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)Thyroid Antibodies:
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab 180 HIGH (0-34 IU/mL)
Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 (0-40 IU/mL)Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound:
Testosterone, Serum 784 (241-827 ng/dL)
Test, % Free and Weakly
Bound 10.5% (9.0 – 46%)
Testosterone, Free and
Weakly Bound 82.3 (40-250 ng/dL)Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) 80 (30-85 ng/dL)
IGF – 1 327 HIGH (115-307 ng/mL)
LH 4.3 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH 2.5 (1.4-18.1 mIU/mL)
DHEA-Sulfate 161 (120-520 ug/dL)
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 45.4 (32-100 ng/mL)
Cortisol (AM) 14.2 (4.3-22.4 ug/dL)
Cortisol (PM) 6.8 (3.1-16.7 ug/dL)Prolactin 10.9 (2.1-17.7 ng/mL)
SHBG 63 (13-71 nmol/L)
Estradiol,Sensative 11 (3-70 pg/mL)
@DrMariano 1147 wrote:
If low thyroid hormone is the only problem (and it is definitely not in nearly everyone I see), then all of the symptoms you mention may be due to low thyroid hormone either directly through its effects on cellular metabolism or indirectly through effects on the other signaling systems.
The reason many people can’t see this is that they see things only one step ahead of time. It is like the game of chess. In chess, when most beginners can see primarily one or two steps ahead. Thus they cannot see formations in the game that occur 3 to 8 moves ahead. A grandmaster in chess can see ahead by up to 32 moves ahead. Another analogy is juggling. Most people can learn to juggle two balls. But it is a huge order of complexity when one has to juggle 20 balls at a time.
All one has to do is to think what other systems become affected when thyroid hormone becomes low – e.g. dopamine, norepinephrine, testosterone, estrogen, serotonin, GABA, etc. It is these secondary effects and further downstream effects that occur like a cascade that can cause the symptoms you list.
I will ask my doc about it. My number are said to be good I have a TSH of only about 2.27 and my numbers are mid range. I dont have some of those symptoms such as jouint pain, but have anxiety that is bad and sleep way too much. The sexual symptoms are really similar to mine as I have heard him explain them in more depth before. MY estradiol is also low and my test came out kind of high normal as of last test. Low glucose also but high morning cortisol. Slow recovery time also.
I am just trying to keep up with this thread to see where it goes and what info he gets.
@Mebigusmall 1753 wrote:
I will ask my doc about it. My number are said to be good I have a TSH of only about 2.27 and my numbers are mid range. I dont have some of those symptoms such as jouint pain, but have anxiety that is bad and sleep way too much. The sexual symptoms are really similar to mine as I have heard him explain them in more depth before. MY estradiol is also low and my test came out kind of high normal as of last test. Low glucose also but high morning cortisol. Slow recovery time also.
I am just trying to keep up with this thread to see where it goes and what info he gets.
We have tested people with TSH of 1.15 no thyroid meds and had high antibodies. TSH is not a valid measurement for thyroid as emotional, phyisical, mental stress can give false normal readings.
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