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@chaos 97 wrote:
Any reason you shouldn’t take a pre-sleep GABA or melatonin supplement while on Prozac?
Off the cuff, there aren’t any hard contraindications for taking all three together.
The primary problem would be additive sedation causing oversedation in some people.
Although the idea of using GABA to help sleep is interesting, I haven’t found it useful in clinical use. Often, for it to penetrate the blood brain barrier in adequate amounts to improve sleep, large doses have to be used. Large doses, however, increase the duration of action for GABA. This then causes fatigue or oversedation during the daytime.
Perhaps GABA works for other people better than what I have experienced.
When a person has low hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal function or adrenal fatigue, melatonin can cause problems if the dose is too high. One of melatonin’s functions is to reduce adrenal function. If adrenal cortex output is already low, this can be a problem with the intended use of melatonin. Generally if the dose is greater than 1 mg of Melatonin, the decrease in adrenal function become low enough that the sympathetic nervous system becomes overactive since adequate adrenal cortex output of cortisol, progesterone, DHEA, etc. is necessary to maintain control over the sympathetic nervous system. Thus, particularly in the presence of adrenal fatigue, excessive melatonin can cause insomnia – the opposite of the intended effect.
@DrMariano 100 wrote:
Off the cuff, there aren’t any hard contraindications for taking all three together.
The primary problem would be additive sedation causing oversedation in some people.
Although the idea of using GABA to help sleep is interesting, I haven’t found it useful in clinical use. Often, for it to penetrate the blood brain barrier in adequate amounts to improve sleep, large doses have to be used. Large doses, however, increase the duration of action for GABA. This then causes fatigue or oversedation during the daytime.
Perhaps GABA works for other people better than what I have experienced.
When a person has low hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal function or adrenal fatigue, melatonin can cause problems if the dose is too high. One of melatonin’s functions is to reduce adrenal function. If adrenal cortex output is already low, this can be a problem with the intended use of melatonin. Generally if the dose is greater than 1 mg of Melatonin, the decrease in adrenal function become low enough that the sympathetic nervous system becomes overactive since adequate adrenal cortex output of cortisol, progesterone, DHEA, etc. is necessary to maintain control over the sympathetic nervous system. Thus, particularly in the presence of adrenal fatigue, excessive melatonin can cause insomnia – the opposite of the intended effect.
Before I go to bed I take 200 mgs sun theanine with 500 mgs of GABA. I use this combination during the day to keep my serotonin and dopamine levels in check. With out this combination I tend to fly off the handle very easy because my body uses cortisol up at a rapid rate. Please correct me if I am wrong bur when an adrenal insufficient person uses a high dosage of melatonin to they could have an adverse reaction due to cortisol levels dropping. The drop in cortisol would then potentially release a surge in adrenaline resulting in insomnia.
@hardasnails1973 117 wrote:
Before I go to bed I take 200 mgs sun theanine with 500 mgs of GABA. I use this combination during the day to keep my serotonin and dopamine levels in check. With out this combination I tend to fly off the handle very easy because my body uses cortisol up at a rapid rate. Please correct me if I am wrong bur when an adrenal insufficient person uses a high dosage of melatonin to they could have an adverse reaction due to cortisol levels dropping. The drop in cortisol would then potentially release a surge in adrenaline resulting in insomnia.
Melatonin can be difficult to use when a person has low cortisol production.
Cortisol is needed to keep norepinephrine signaling in control.
Melatonin, however, slows down adrenal cortex production – resulting in reduced cortisol production. Thus if the dose of Melatonin is too high – e.g. greater than 1 mg – then the reduction in cortisol production could be great enough to impair control over norepinephrine production. This then causes the person’s sympathetic nervous system to become more active. This is the opposite effect sought from treatment with Melatonin. The person gets insomnia rather than sleep. This is why some practitioners say patients with adrenal fatigue get activation rather than sedation on Melatonin.
Rozerem (Ramelteon), a commercial and artificial version of melatonin, doesn’t reduce cortisol production as much since it isn’t as strongly binding on melatonin-3 receptors – which are in the body. It primarily binds to melatonin-1 and -2 receptors in the nervous system. Thus in many patients, this is a good option. For example, one of my patients has cortisol levels around 1-2. She sleeps very well when treated with Rozerem.
What an informative forum.
I remember seeing the commercials for Rozerem (Abe Lincoln, I think), but had no idea it had a new mechanism for action til now.
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