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@Johnny 1418 wrote:
Would asking for phlebotomy be a shot in the dark? Are there any downside to such a treatment?
Many times the answer to a question is right in front of us.
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What is interesting about lab testing is that when one test gives an unusual value, a patient becomes overly focused on that result as the “obvious” reason for their problems. Yet there are numerous other possibilities yet to be considered.
For example, in the case of the lack of libido, many young men would overly focus on a testosterone of 400 ng/dL as THE cause of their lack of libido. And they would go from doctor to doctor trying to get testosterone treatment. Will it work? Maybe. But often it does not work. This is because there are other causes for the lack of libido yet to be considered or assessed with a different lab test.
Off the top of my head, other causes of a lack of libido yet to be assessed may include low or high estrogen signaling, low thyroid hormone, low cortisol signaling, excessively high norepinephrine signaling, low dopamine signaling, low or high iron, low fat soluble vitamin intake, low selenium, low growth hormone, low serotonin signaling, psychological issues, stress, anxiety, performance anxiety, homosexuality yet the partner is heterosexual, diabetes, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sleep apnea, atherosclerosis, medication side effects, zinc deficiency, pituitary tumors, relationship problems, excessive intimacy, childhood sexual abuse or past sexual trauma, hypertension, renal disease, stroke, etc. etc. etc.
Addressing and treating some of the alternative causes may raise testosterone, itself, without having to do testosterone replacement.
Thus, it is important to look for other causes of a persons illness since a better target and more appropriate treatment may be found.
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A large area to explore, for example are nutritional deficits. Modern diets are nutritionally deficient. So many patients tell me they eat well. But when I actually monitor their nutritional status, many deficits show up.
When Weston Price DDS studied nutrition in the early 1900s, he found that traditional diets are usually up to 10 times more nutritionally dense than modern diets. This finding boggled my mind when I saw the data. This is particularly true today since the nutritional value of foods has decreased significantly compared to the same foods in the 1930s. For example, it takes many servings more spinach today to get the same iron content as a serving of spinach in the 1930s.
@DrMariano 1444 wrote:
Many times the answer to a question is right in front of us.
—
What is interesting about lab testing is that when one test gives an unusual value, a patient becomes overly focused on that result as the “obvious” reason for their problems. Yet there are numerous other possibilities yet to be considered.
For example, in the case of the lack of libido, many young men would overly focus on a testosterone of 400 ng/dL as THE cause of their lack of libido. And they would go from doctor to doctor trying to get testosterone treatment. Will it work? Maybe. But often it does not work. This is because there are other causes for the lack of libido yet to be considered or assessed with a different lab test.
Off the top of my head, other causes of a lack of libido yet to be assessed may include low or high estrogen signaling, low thyroid hormone, low cortisol signaling, excessively high norepinephrine signaling, low dopamine signaling, low or high iron, low fat soluble vitamin intake, low selenium, low growth hormone, low serotonin signaling, psychological issues, stress, anxiety, performance anxiety, homosexuality yet the partner is heterosexual, diabetes, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sleep apnea, atherosclerosis, medication side effects, zinc deficiency, pituitary tumors, relationship problems, excessive intimacy, childhood sexual abuse or past sexual trauma, hypertension, renal disease, stroke, etc. etc. etc.
Addressing and treating some of the alternative causes may raise testosterone, itself, without having to do testosterone replacement.
Thus, it is important to look for other causes of a persons illness since a better target and more appropriate treatment may be found.
—
A large area to explore, for example are nutritional deficits. Modern diets are nutritionally deficient. So many patients tell me they eat well. But when I actually monitor their nutritional status, many deficits show up.
When Weston Price DDS studied nutrition in the early 1900s, he found that traditional diets are usually up to 10 times more nutritionally dense than modern diets. This finding boggled my mind when I saw the data. This is particularly true today since the nutritional value of foods has decreased significantly compared to the same foods in the 1930s. For example, it takes many servings more spinach today to get the same iron content as a serving of spinach in the 1930s.
Dr., can you define ‘traditional diet’ and ‘modern diet’?
Thank you.
@DrMariano 1444 wrote:
What is interesting about lab testing is that when one test gives an unusual value, a patient becomes overly focused on that result as the “obvious” reason for their problems. Yet there are numerous other possibilities yet to be considere
Agree:)
@DrMariano 1444 wrote:
For example, in the case of the lack of libido, many young men would overly focus on a testosterone of 400 ng/dL as THE cause of their lack of libido. And they would go from doctor to doctor trying to get testosterone treatment.
Just to clarify, I have no desire for testosterone treatment and sincerely hope that will never be necessary.
@DrMariano 1444 wrote:
Off the top of my head, other causes of a lack of libido yet to be assessed may include low or high estrogen signaling, low thyroid hormone, low cortisol signaling, excessively high norepinephrine signaling, low dopamine signaling, low or high iron, low fat soluble vitamin intake, low selenium, low growth hormone, low serotonin signaling, psychological issues, stress, anxiety, performance anxiety, homosexuality yet the partner is heterosexual, diabetes, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sleep apnea, atherosclerosis, medication side effects, zinc deficiency, pituitary tumors, relationship problems, excessive intimacy, childhood sexual abuse or past sexual trauma, hypertension, renal disease, stroke, etc. etc. etc
Wow. That`s quite a list:)
Everything related to sexual confusion, childhood abuse, sexual trauma, stress, anxiety, performance anxiety, mental health, etc, can be ruled out 100%. I don`t use any medication. I suppose diabetes is out of the question as well due to my tests. I regard myself a very well functioning person and I`m able to effortlessly meet new women in my daily life or when going out in the weekends.
Out of your list, that leaves me with: high estrogen signaling, low thyroid hormone, low cortisol signaling, excessively high norepinephrine signaling, low dopamine signaling, low or high iron, low selenium, low growth hormone, low serotonin signaling, sleep apnea, atherosclerosis, zinc deficiency, pituitary tumors, relationship problems, excessive intimacy, childhood sexual abuse or past sexual trauma, hypertension, renal disease.
I don`t think it is zinc deficiency since I periodically use ZMA (zinc, magnesium and B6).
I`m very interested to hear more about your take on nutrition and I am somewhat familiar with the work of Weston Price myself.
I eat mostly fruits, easy on grains, lots of meat, fish, chicken, greens, nuts, fish oil, animal fat, etc. I think malnutrition can be ruled out as well.
I think I need to google some of the other stuff in your list tonight and possible treatment.
I have a very important detail regarding my “condition”, if it could give you any clues. And to clarify once again, low libido even though it sucks, is probably not the main problem I experience.
The main problem is that typically when I wake up in the morning I feel that my body aches almost like I`ve done heavy workouts when I have not. Even after 9 hours of sleep, I may need sheer willpower to get out of bed.
I feel unusually tired and need to force myself to work at my desk at home. Yesterday I had to lay on the bed several times in between work sessions at my computer because I was feeling so tired, fatigued and generally uninspired.
Later in the day I went to workout with weights after a one-week break, and as often happen, I felt great during the workout. I also felt much better, more awake and more energized after the workout. Totally different from earlier in the day.
Today, I was also very tired and fatigued upon awakening and during the following hours, but around 3-4 o`clock in in the day I was starting to feel more energized.
I took a one hour light walk at 7:00 PM and when I was back at my desk working around 9:30 PM, I was feeling very good in my body. Energized and focused at work. Suddenly loving the work and wanting to keep working and studying.
Now, at 12PM , I`m starting to feel naturally tired, but my body kind of feels healthy and light, and my mental clarity is good. Still somewhat weak libido though.
Shortly said: I usually feel like shit when awakening and have a hard time simply sitting upstraight. 5-7 hours after I have awakened I suddenly feel a LOT better. Working out also seems to make me much more energized and awakened afterwards.
Another example is that I promised my friend to join him for a hike a few weeks ago. I literally felt sick and had so little energy, that I hoped he would cancel. Still, I went along with him. When I started moving I suddenly seemed to have energy and we actually took a new record in terms of time up the mountain. Felt great afterwards as well.
I have also experienced feeling great like this for a continuous week or more, but then suddenly the fatigue hits me again with full force. I`m fairly confident that there are no correlation with any mental stuff either as it seems to come out of nowhere.
There are also days where I feel like shit for the whole day, but in general and the clue I wanted to share, is that a huge part of my fatigue seems to disappear during the day.
Sorry for writing such long ass posts!
Kind regards,
Johnny
I was zinc deficient for 3 years despite 100 mgs of zinc a day. It was not untill I corrected the thyroid and EFA imbalances, melatonin deficincy that my zinc finally got absorbed.
@hardasnails1973 1457 wrote:
I was zinc deficient for 3 years despite 100 mgs of zinc a day. It was not untill I corrected the thyroid and EFA imbalances, melatonin deficincy that my zinc finally got absorbed.
That`s interesting. How did you correct those imbalances?
If zinc levels can be tested through blood, I will ask for a test the next time around.
Thanks,
Johnny
Last week was strange.
I did something called a PSMF – protein sparing modified fast. Basically, it is a diet with a significant calorie deficit and only protein. No fats except a tablespoon of essential fatty acids every day. It is an extreme diet and not conducive for high testosterone, but I just wanted to do one week to rid some fat.
And since I`ve been eating on a calorie surplus with fruits, fats and lots of protein without any big success to show for, I decided that one week could not hurt.
The strange thing was that this week my libido was actually above average and I usually had a plump penis all the time and a tendency to get erections several times per day.
According to the theory, I should have experienced the opposite!
I`m curious if this could indicate that I have any food intolerances since my food intake that week pretty much was limited to chicken, red meat, broccoli, fat-free cottage cheese and protein shakes.
I have not talked to my doctor yet about the results.
Just talked to the doctor.
I was busy when he called me, so he caught me a little off-guard. I had some counter questions I wanted to ask, but I did not get to ask them all.
Basically he told me that I do have high iron stores due to the high ferritin. It could be said that I have a kind of hemochromatosis, but it is not the clinical hemochromatosis so there is no danger for me at this point.
When I told him that I feel fatigued and tired, he told me that it had to be because of other reasons like too much study or whatever.
He would not perform phlebotomy on me.
I don`t know, perhaps I`m just fed up talking to the deaf ears about this, so I really did not speak up for myself as I perhaps should have done.
He said I could take some new tests in 6 months and see what they show.
So I`m back to square one now.
Guess there`s not much more to do at this point.
I am considering performing phlebotomy by myself if I can retrieve the equipment:)
Kind regards,
Johnny
I ran across a kid that I told him to get blood test to check for hormones ..He asked me what needle he needed to stick in him self to draw it out. I immediately cut ties with him because I did not want to be responsible for his area. He was serious about doing it because he did not have money to get blood drawn in the country he was at.
@hardasnails1973 1619 wrote:
I ran across a kid that I told him to get blood test to check for hormones ..He asked me what needle he needed to stick in him self to draw it out. I immediately cut ties with him because I did not want to be responsible for his area. He was serious about doing it because he did not have money to get blood drawn in the country he was at.
Sounds like a crazy kid:)
I received the following from [url]www.ironoverload.org:[/url]
There is a British Lancet Journal article that explains how some iron overload cases will present with a normal saturation lab value: The Lancet – Vol. 349 Jan. 11, 1997. Because you have the symptoms and high ferritin, we would say that you should be placed in a course of trial treatment to reduce this ferritin level. Frequent blood draws for lab tests tend to normalize the transferrin saturation. See our web pages on” Treatment” and “Diet” at: http://www.ironoverload.org .
Doctors tend to ignore elevated ferritin – measure of storage iron – as it is termed acute phase reactive. Which means it can be spiked by a passing infection or
inflammation. But your symptoms are directly attributable to excess iron and
because your ferritin is increasing, it should be taken seriously.I think I will now write my doctor a letter or call him with this quote in order to ask for phlebotomy.
Kind regards,
Johnny
Guys,
I have not talked to my doctor yet as I wanted to take another ferritin test first. I received it today:
Ferritin was now 410 and transferrin-saturation had gone down to just under 30%.
For the last two weeks I`ve been feeling worse than in a long time; bodyaches, extremely tired in the morning and during the day and very low energy. Fatigue.
I was dead set on calling my doctor to demand phlebotomy, but for some reason, I`ve been feeling more like a normal person the last two days without any changes in my life. I think I will call him anyway, since it probably will come back.
DrMariano;
Do you think phlebotomy would be the correct treatment?
Is there any downside/risk to such a treatment if my iron stores are not high?
Best regards,
Johnny
@Johnny 1853 wrote:
Guys,
I have not talked to my doctor yet as I wanted to take another ferritin test first. I received it today:
Ferritin was now 410 and transferrin-saturation had gone down to just under 30%.
For the last two weeks I`ve been feeling worse than in a long time; bodyaches, extremely tired in the morning and during the day and very low energy. Fatigue.
I was dead set on calling my doctor to demand phlebotomy, but for some reason, I`ve been feeling more like a normal person the last two days without any changes in my life. I think I will call him anyway, since it probably will come back.
DrMariano;
Do you think phlebotomy would be the correct treatment?
Is there any downside/risk to such a treatment if my iron stores are not high?
Best regards,
Johnny
may be you just had a hidden infection that is starting to work its way out of your body.
i would ride it out for a week or so then get ferritin rechecked to see if there was a change.@hardasnails1973 1856 wrote:
may be you just had a hidden infection that is starting to work its way out of your body.
i would ride it out for a week or so then get ferritin rechecked to see if there was a change.I have considered that, but it`s risen from 340 to 430 since March?
I could be an chronic infections located in the uriniary tract. I just had a case of this as well guy looked like he had hemochromatosis but it turned out to be a prolong urinary infection.
@hardasnails1973 1876 wrote:
I could be an chronic infections located in the uriniary tract. I just had a case of this as well guy looked like he had hemochromatosis but it turned out to be a prolong urinary infection.
Interesting.
I do however not have any discomfort in that area or when peeing?
Did your guy suffer the same symptoms in terms of reduced energy levels, fatigue and lower sexdrive?
What`s the treatment and how is it diagnosed?
One thing that`s been going on with me that I`ve mentioned earlier, is that I do get good days/weeks in between.
At the beginning of last week I was superdetermined to finally get some done (I`m procrastinating as I find making the calls difficult since the doctors seem to say I`m okay) because I felt like hell the whole weekend.
I sent around some emails in order to get in touch with some specialists, but it is impossible without a recommendation from my family doc, so I will need to see him again.
Anyway, what happened is that last week was one where I felt much better than I usually do; not as tired, energy in the morning and normal sexdrive/erections.
This week I`m back to the fatigue state for unknown reasons.
Thanks in advance,
Johnny
Please check your thyroid and adrenals to see if there is an imbalance in these hormone systems. I would also look at vitamin d levels as well because they can affect ones mood and energy levels. Since we are coming into the winter time and depending on your location will determine how much you will need. One could also look at nutrient imbalance through metabolic testing and spectracell. If you are near California please go see Dr M. If you are in the northeast feel fee to contact my self for info. I am just throwing things out there to look into that may not have been explored.
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