HAN B2 Iodine & MTHFR Questions

[Lethal Lee]

Howdy Han,

Wondered if you could answer a couple of questions for me.

You have posted several times on RTH about MTHFR mutations affecting Iodine handling.
You also mentioned Methyl B12, Folinic Acid & B2.

Apr 12, 2008 http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=5654
Hardasnails wrote:People with a genetic mutation (which can occur in 30-40% of the population) known as the 5-mthfr enzymecan not uptake iodine no matter how much they take. If this is not over-ridden with Folinic Acid & high dosages of Vit B2 then cancer will be that person’s future. This is a cold hard fact but mainstream Drs have no clue re these mutations.

Mar 20, 2009 http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11516&p=91454&hilit=MTHFR#p91454
Hardasnails wrote:If you are not taking a crap load of Folic Acid then you may have a mutation or dysfunctional gene in the MTHFR not too many Dr’s know that a defect in this gene causes cancer because it causes the body cant uptake iodine leading to Hypothyroidism and also does not allow the Folic acid to convert to methyl-tetra-hydr folate – (biological form). Folic acid gets trapped and not usable. Folate from Solgar 800 mcgs will help override this 3-4 pills a day, with Methylcobalmin. I take Leucovarins Methyl B12 shots. 2 times a week to help override the malfunction

Jul 02, 2009 http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13194

Hardasnails wrote: Majority of hypothyroid people are undermethylators meaning that or body are incapable of getting rid toxins as fast as the average person. When to use certain methylating agents depends on one genetic expression and also potential Gene mutations such as CBS, BHMT, methione synthase, MTHFR, VDR’S. Some times sam-e can be great provided that that is what is needed to get the cycle going but if there imbalances in specific pathway it can be disasters.

In order to full understand this I will tell you that B2 is down regulated in hypothyroid people and can be a huge impact on helping uptake iodine into the cell through stimulating the NTS transport mechanism. Meaning that any one with anglo, irish, or american indian decent have the gene for these mutations (switches to turn on or off). This will hide from dr’s as homocysteine may look normal but how it is detoxified is the biggest thing that needs to explored.

Thu Jul 02, 2009 http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13194

Hardasnails wrote: I believe once the hypothyroid is starts the chain reaction is started. One’s Homocysteine level may come down, but how it is detoxified may continue on in the same matter and go hidden from Dr’s view. Case in point- myself even with Thyroid & Adrenals etc supported I still kick out excessive Taurine in urine because I have an over active CBS, BHMT, and underactive methylation. I believe stress is the trigger or switch for the mutation to be set in motion. It is known that once methylation is rebalanced a lot of hormones, CFS and FM issues all of sudden clear right up.

Just for precaution I recommend to all people that I assist to start on Folinic Acid and Methyl B12, B2 400 mgs as these will help over come these blocks as well as reduce cancer rate IMO >60%. I can not prove it but I think HYPO is a cancer onswitch. I know it sounds like a sick thing to do, but if I could I would conduct a survey now of all the people who are Hypothyroid that take Methyl and Folinic Acid now & ones that don’t. In 20-25 years I’ll ask how many people have either did or have cancer related issues.

I have MTHFR C677T Heterozygous Gene Mutation as do my Twin 17 year old sons.
We all have Hashis & AI & are on meds for those plus a lot of supps.

I am interested in how MTHFR mutation affects Iodine uptake & handling as I have not read anything on this before. I have always been wary of Iodine myself as I have Amalgams & Mercury Toxicity. I have also reacted badly to Iodine Radiocontrast the 2 times I have had it.

We are all on a number of supplements including B Vits. I went to some trouble to find good quality & bioavailable forms. However I had never heard of B2 being needed for MTFHR issues & certainly not at the level of 400mg you mention in your post.

This is what we are all on:
Current B Vit Supplementation

1) B Complex #5 Thorne Research
Each Capsule Contains
B1 Thiamine (from 50 mg Thiamine HCI)……………………………………………..40mg
B2 Riboflavin (from 25 mg Riboflavin and 5 mg Riboflavin 5′-Phosphate)……28.6mg
B3 Niacin (from 20 mg Niacin and 275 mg Niacinamide)………………………….295mg
B5 Pantothenic Acid (from 50 mg Calcium Pantothenate)………………………….45mg
B6 (from 25 mg Pyridoxine HCI and 5 mg Pyridoxal 5′-Phosphate)…………..23.4mg
B9 Folate (100 mcg Calcium Folinate 100 mcg 5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate)….200mcg
B12 (50 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 50 mcg as Methylcobalamin)……….100mcg
Biotin…………………………………………………………………………………………80mcg
Choline Citrate………………………………………………………………………………40mg

2) Folacal Thorne Research
Folate (Folinic Acid from Calcium Folinate) ………………………………………..800 mcg.

3) Methylcobalamin sublinguals Jarrow Formulations
5000mcg from April’08-March’09
From April’09……………………………………………………………………………..2500mcg

Total B Vits taken daily
B1 Thiamine (50 mg Thiamine HCI)……………………………………………………..40mg
B2 Riboflavin (25 mg Riboflavin and 5 mg Riboflavin 5′-Phosphate)……………28.6mg
B3 Niacin (Niacin) …………………………………………………………………………..20mg
B3 Niacin (Niacinamide)…………………………………………………………………..275mg
B5 Pantothenic Acid (from 50 mg Calcium Pantothenate)…………………………..45mg
B6 (from 25 mg Pyridoxine HCI and 5 mg Pyridoxal 5′-Phosphate)……………23.4mg
B7 Biotin……………………………………………………………………………………….80mcg
B8 Inositol………………………………………………………………………………………none
B9 Folate (Calcium Folinate)……………………………………………………………..900mcg
B9 Folate (5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate)………………………………………………….100mcg
B12 (Adenosylcobalamin)…………………………………………………………………..50mcg
B12 (Methylcobalamin)……………………………………………………………………2550mcg
Choline Citrate………………………………………………………………………………..40mg

My queries are …..

1) Do you think the above is good?

2) Any changes you’d recommend (Obviously there is far less B2 than you mentioned)?

3) I know there is no Inisitol in my Multi do you think this is needed & if so how much & in what form?

4) Have you any info, links re MTHFR, Iodine, the NTS transport mechanism, why B2 is downregulated in Hypothyroidism and why 400mg B2 is needed?

[hardasnails1973]

Lethal Lee let me clarify
The mechanism that affects iodine transport is called NIS, I was trying to recall it from memory beacuse I have not mentioned it for few years. Ladybugsandbees AKA stepinane from stopthyroid madness has been to Dr Browinstein for breast cancer. Her and I were talking for a long time on the board about these mutations. Actually I started posted before DR browsteine even identified it because I was being treated for the same thing from my dr as well. When it comes to methylation and mutations I have been to the best Dr in the united states for autism (Dr Patricia Kane). She treats autistic from all around the work and these mutations which people are dealing with can be triggered or mimic through mercury toxcity. No matter how much b2 I consumed by levels were always cellular low even after 2 years. My body tends to use up b2 at rapid rate or it absorption is being impaired due to some other mechanism. People with a MTHFR mutation tend to have a defect in the NIS transport system and no matter how much iodine they take the body absorbs very little.
I was taking iodoral 50 mgs a day and then retested my iodine urine through loading test and it only moved up from 45 to 70% in the tissue level. I have assumed as so did the Dr that i had the mutuation. Mutations are can alter b-12 absorption and utilization as well. I have been taking injectable b-12 oral for over 2 years and still ending up cellular deficient by urine, hair and cellular cobalamine deficiency. My suspcion is due to my low ferritin level feeding nitric oxide levels resulting in an already altered mechanism from some unknown source (intestinal infections not identified). Unhealthy levels of ferritin may be triggering nitric oxide and put excessive demand on methionne synthase increasing risks of potential cancers. Mthfr mutation may also result in the number of people with vitamin D resistance as well since this gene can alter vitamin D metabolism

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/13/12/2071

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/11/3758S
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/11/3758S

[keithdolby]

Dr. Jerry Kartzinel ( also a top pediatrician for autism) has all of his kids on high dose sub-q methyl b-12, and also very high doses of vitamin d3. He does other things as well, but I believe sub-q methyl b12 is usually his first line of treatment.

[Mebigusmall]

How does one find out if they have one of these mutations?

What form of injectable b12 could one try and how much should one take?

[hardasnails1973]

@Mebigusmall 2276 wrote:

How does one find out if they have one of these mutations?

What form of injectable b12 could one try and how much should one take?

i can tell from nutra eval testing and other intracellular issues. I looked for upregulated pathways in urine to help identify these issues. Took me over 2 years to read the urine test, but finally I have it down to a science and can pinpoint the mutations. Patients I use combination of hyrox/methy b-12 to start out.. Hidden inflammation is the most likely suspect coming from dybiosis. Every person with upregulated CBS has some kind of infection or chronic inflammation going on. I have looked at hundreds of OATS and nutra evals to confirm this.

[MetalMX]

I have been using Folinic Acid and MethylB12 regularly but i have forgotten about the B2. I have just started on a Coenzymated B2 100mg per day and am quickly noticing some improvements with my hypo symptoms. It is interesting that with this defect no matter how much iodine you take it cannot be taken up by the cell without B2.

So with this defect and not being to absorb iodine i assume this leaves you much more vulnerable to dybiosis or can it even prevent you from clearing infections? which B2 overcomes

[MetalMX]

@MetalMX 2305 wrote:

I have been using Folinic Acid and MethylB12 regularly but i have forgotten about the B2. I have just started on a Coenzymated B2 100mg per day and am quickly noticing some improvements with my hypo symptoms. It is interesting that with this defect no matter how much iodine you take it cannot be taken up by the cell without B2.

So with this defect and not being to absorb iodine i assume this leaves you much more vulnerable to dybiosis or can it even prevent you from clearing infections? which B2 overcomes

I have to say HAN what you have found out is F**king amazing!!! I tried B2 first day felt much better less hypo – cold hands and less calf stiffness/aching meaning less adrenal stress from being hypo due to this issue.

😀

[hardasnails1973]

@MetalMX 2307 wrote:

I have to say HAN what you have found out is F**king amazing!!! I tried B2 first day felt much better less hypo – cold hands and less calf stiffness/aching meaning less adrenal stress from being hypo due to this issue.

😀

I have been studying methylation and manipulating it for over4 years and it has made profound effects in people’s life. Dude it was there the whole time elevated sarcosine is a red flag for it. Telling you I have been through everything the average patient/client has been through. When you have mutation in mthfr b-2 is definitely a factor and may need the converted form of riboflavin to help as well. When I see high sarcsoine in urine I recommend folonic acid and also 400-600 mgs of b-2.

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