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If a person has an altered 2/16 hydrox ratio that is < .5 could taking 30 mgs DHEA (which is probably making it worse i am sure) one experience the estrogenic related issues such as bloating, mood swings, lack of motivation, hair loss, BPH , mental fog even though ones e2 levels are completely in exceptable range. It appears that when ever I stop DIM my symptoms start coming back even though my e2 levels are not that far off from normal range. When I was taking DHEA 25 mgs BID and 300 mgs of DIM I was fine then when I ran out symptoms came back with in a few weeks. Now thyroid, adrenals, testosterone, are completely in check, but my estrogen metabolites are running rampant. I am basically experiencing all the side effects of dhea even though my levels are upper 70%. (400 ng/dl) The range was 97 – 540 on for a 30 year old.
I am not sure about this but try testing your Aldosterone and Renin levels if low you might need florinef when I went on this my aldosterone was 2 my DHEA went back up to near the top of the range. I was able to stop DHEA supplements.
Here read what Chris says about this.
http://www.geocities.com/chrisgj@sbcglobal.net/My_Explanation_Low_Aldosterone_Hypopituitarism.html
Phil
@hardasnails1973 842 wrote:If a person has an altered 2/16 hydrox ratio that is < .5 could taking 30 mgs DHEA (which is probably making it worse i am sure) one experience the estrogenic related issues such as bloating, mood swings, lack of motivation, hair loss, BPH , mental fog even though ones e2 levels are completely in exceptable range. It appears that when ever I stop DIM my symptoms start coming back even though my e2 levels are not that far off from normal range. When I was taking DHEA 25 mgs BID and 300 mgs of DIM I was fine then when I ran out symptoms came back with in a few weeks. Now thyroid, adrenals, testosterone, are completely in check, but my estrogen metabolites are running rampant. I am basically experiencing all the side effects of dhea even though my levels are upper 70%. (400 ng/dl) The range was 97 – 540 on for a 30 year old.
@hardasnails1973 842 wrote:
If a person has an altered 2/16 hydrox ratio that is < .5 could taking 30 mgs DHEA (which is probably making it worse i am sure) one experience the estrogenic related issues such as bloating, mood swings, lack of motivation, hair loss, BPH , mental fog even though ones e2 levels are completely in exceptable range.
It appears that when ever I stop DIM my symptoms start coming back even though my e2 levels are not that far off from normal range. When I was taking DHEA 25 mgs BID and 300 mgs of DIM I was fine then when I ran out symptoms came back with in a few weeks. Now thyroid, adrenals, testosterone, are completely in check, but my estrogen metabolites are running rampant. I am basically experiencing all the side effects of dhea even though my levels are upper 70%. (400 ng/dl) The range was 97 – 540 on for a 30 year old.
It may be useful to do a comprehensive 24-hour urine hormone and metabolites test with a thyroid hormone panel before and after treatment or fractionated estrogens before and after treatment with DHEA to actually determine where DHEA is heading metabolically before stating it is an estrogen issue.
Bloating is not necessarily an estrogen problem. There are other contributing factors including metabolic ones – such as low iron.
Lack of motivation is not an estrogen problem. That may be a hypoadrenal or pro-inflammatory cytokine or low dopamine, etc. problem. If anything, estrogen provides men and women drive and competitiveness.
Hair loss may not be an estrogen problem. This may be a nutritional problem – such as the loss of zinc with stress or a problem with dihydrotestosterone (which can increase with DHEA). Estrogen may prolong the growth phase of hair, resulting in more hair not less. DHEA can also metabolize to other androgens, thus, in too high an amount, can result in hair loss not related to estrogen.
Mental fogginess may indirectly be effected by estrogen through its effect on lowering free thyroid hormone levels, possibly through its effects similar to a monoamine oxidase inhibitor – which raises serotonin more than dopamine or norepinephrine, with excess serotonin contributing to “mental fog”. But other factors may be in place since Estradiol level doesn’t change.
DIM is interesting in that its total mechanism of action is not very clear. I would wonder if DIM is modifying more than just estrogen. Since it apparently modifies the activity of certain cytochrome P-450 enzymes in order to emphasize the 2-Hydroxy Estrogen pathways, it would also affect other substrates (other substances) which are modified by those same enzymes. And it is these substrates which are the actual problems, not estrogen.
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