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Has anyone that tested low ferritin also had high reverse T3? I have low ferritin and low vitamin D levels, but they are edging up slowly. I also take low doses of Armour or NT and just recently added 10mcg of Cytomel 2x a day.
I have most of the low thyroid symptoms and my initial Free T4 before taking any medications was .93. My level has gone up slightly, but I found my Reverse T3 was 390 and the high range at my lab I think was 380.
My worst symptom is muscle pain. I believe I have fibromyalgia with trigger knots around many of my muscles. I believe the cause of this condition is from inadequate thyroid production. Now that could be because of the low ferritin and low D.
I have read Dr. Lowe’s theories on fibro pain and high Reverse T3 and he treats with large doses of T3.
I’m at 1.5 grains NT and 10mcgs of Cytomel and my last lab results of Free T3 came back 3.6 (2.3-4.2), my Free T4, 1.15 (0.61-1.76), Total T4, 7.0 (4.5-12.0), Total T3 185 (85-205).
Ferritin came back 53 and that is up from 31 before taking any supplements. D came back 46 and that is up from 28 before supplements.
Anyone with low ferritin also have high Reverse T3 and problems with muscle pain or fibro? I’m going to address all deficient levels, but I’d like get close to which is the culprit in this awful pain syndrome.
@corky1121 1470 wrote:
Has anyone that tested low ferritin also had high reverse T3? I have low ferritin and low vitamin D levels, but they are edging up slowly. I also take low doses of Armour or NT and just recently added 10mcg of Cytomel 2x a day.
I have most of the low thyroid symptoms and my initial Free T4 before taking any medications was .93. My level has gone up slightly, but I found my Reverse T3 was 390 and the high range at my lab I think was 380.
My worst symptom is muscle pain. I believe I have fibromyalgia with trigger knots around many of my muscles. I believe the cause of this condition is from inadequate thyroid production. Now that could be because of the low ferritin and low D.
I have read Dr. Lowe’s theories on fibro pain and high Reverse T3 and he treats with large doses of T3.
I’m at 1.5 grains NT and 10mcgs of Cytomel and my last lab results of Free T3 came back 3.6 (2.3-4.2), my Free T4, 1.15 (0.61-1.76), Total T4, 7.0 (4.5-12.0), Total T3 185 (85-205).
Ferritin came back 53 and that is up from 31 before taking any supplements. D came back 46 and that is up from 28 before supplements.
Anyone with low ferritin also have high Reverse T3 and problems with muscle pain or fibro? I’m going to address all deficient levels, but I’d like get close to which is the culprit in this awful pain syndrome.
bump … i also have terrible muscle pain and knots. Tough to get the ferritin up because it causes consitpation, even with extra magnesium. I read a doc that believes muscle pain is also called by toxicity…
Suboptimal iron is one of several nutritional problems which can lead to cellular metabolic problems which may lead to a chain of signaling changes, which my lead to elevated Reverse T3.
@ScorpioChiq 1682 wrote:
bump … i also have terrible muscle pain and knots. Tough to get the ferritin up because it causes consitpation, even with extra magnesium. I read a doc that believes muscle pain is also called by toxicity…
We have reduce people pain simply by removing any artifical sweetners. These people had issues for many years that went unresolved by traditional medicine.
Pain may indicate an inflammatory process is occurring.
When a patient has pain, I evaluate immune system function to determine why inflammatory signaling is increased. There are numerous nervous system, immune system, endocrine system, metabolic and nutritional factors which can cause an increase in inflammatory signaling.
Dr. Lowe has done a lot of research to show that suboptimal thyroid signaling is one of the primary problems in fibromyalgia. However, he also acknowledges other problems are in play including nutritional problems.
In fibromyalgia, often the brain’s microglial cells are in an activated, inflammatory state. This can hypersensitize the pain sensing circuits in the brain. This leads to the perception of generalized muscle pain in fibromylagia, even in the absence of significant muscle injury or problems.
@corky1121 1470 wrote:
Has anyone that tested low ferritin also had high reverse T3? I have low ferritin and low vitamin D levels, but they are edging up slowly. I also take low doses of Armour or NT and just recently added 10mcg of Cytomel 2x a day.
I have most of the low thyroid symptoms and my initial Free T4 before taking any medications was .93. My level has gone up slightly, but I found my Reverse T3 was 390 and the high range at my lab I think was 380.
My worst symptom is muscle pain. I believe I have fibromyalgia with trigger knots around many of my muscles. I believe the cause of this condition is from inadequate thyroid production. Now that could be because of the low ferritin and low D.
I have read Dr. Lowe’s theories on fibro pain and high Reverse T3 and he treats with large doses of T3.
I’m at 1.5 grains NT and 10mcgs of Cytomel and my last lab results of Free T3 came back 3.6 (2.3-4.2), my Free T4, 1.15 (0.61-1.76), Total T4, 7.0 (4.5-12.0), Total T3 185 (85-205).
Ferritin came back 53 and that is up from 31 before taking any supplements. D came back 46 and that is up from 28 before supplements.
Anyone with low ferritin also have high Reverse T3 and problems with muscle pain or fibro? I’m going to address all deficient levels, but I’d like get close to which is the culprit in this awful pain syndrome.
I am not a doctor.
Check your pregnenolone and progesterone blood levels.
If low, use
Nutricology Micronized pregnenolone Lipid Matrix, 150mg tabs, scored.
Use enough to raise both preg & prog (or one of them) to about top range, but no more.
Use it at wakeup time.
Dose (75-300)mgIn my case, pregnenolone have woken up my deiodinases.
That happened within first 1-3 hrs from swallowing FIRST preg pill (so, be prepared).
I have gone thru thyroid dump (high pulse, temp, raised BP)
Had to drastically cut my thyroid hormones intake (to zero).Was taking 1.5grainArmour(old style) + 50mcg-T3=(57mcg-T4) + (63.5mcg-T3)
Latter, ended up with 50mcg-T4
My temperatures stabilized at 36.5-36-7CI have a number of rules for good thyroid supplementation,
but, when facing high RT3, the most important is:
Do not use natural thyroid hormones (containing T4 + T3) or outright T4 when RT3>197 pg/ml=19.7ng/dL
Muscle pains and specially muscle nuts are often correlated with low magnesium levels.Magnesium is hard to raise using supplements
Magnesium have (extremely) bad range on laboratory tests.
Most everybody is misled to believe that they have good blood magnesium range,
that suggest that huge part of population is magnesium deficient.
Laboratory ranges are derived statistically from population that is tested.
Proper magnesium levels are conducive to:
lower resting pulse, bp and pulse pressure (Sys-Dia)http://www.jle.com/fr/revues/bio_rech/mrh/e-docs/00/04/0C/99/article.phtml
Optimal concentrations are > 0.80 mmol/L and ELIN has proposed an evidence-based lower limit of 0.85 mmol/L.
> 0.80 mmol/L=1.95mg/dL
0.85 mmol/L=2.07mg/dL2.5mg/dL=6.08mmol/L
2.6mg/dL=6.33mmol/Lto convert from mg/dL to mmol/L multiply by the conversion factor;
Magnesium mg/dL 0.411 mmol/LMagnesium laboratory range is magnesium(1.5-2.5)mg/dL
it should be changed to —>magnesium(2-2.5)mg/dLI have spend a year, unsuccessfully, trying to raise my magnesium using pills, liquid, orally and magnesium oil, transdermally.
Finally I learned about Epsom Salt enemas.
There are ways to do this neatly.So the real choice in raising magnesium are (painful) IV and Epsom Salt enema.
Ferritin;
I am on good and steady testosterone supplementation for the last 6 years.
Always had good Hgb/Hct
For years I was trying to raise my ferritin, it was coming up slowly, very slowly.
Until I learned about UNILIVER (dried compressed liver).
UNILIVER is inexpensive and it works, there are other twice as expensive liver pills.
During last 6 years I had three surgeries with total anesthesia.
After my last surgery (Apr 2006) I felt different.
My Hgb went up (Hgb=17.5), yesterday I had my second phlebotomy (Hgb=16.5).
Ferritin ~80 (week before surgery), now probably less.I am searching high and low, looking for a ways to raise Ferritin when facing high Hgb/Hct.
I know now how to raise Ferritin, but do not know how to avoid high Hgb/Hct.
=========================
My only concern for raising serum ferritin >100 would be increased inflammation and feeding gut pathogens.
@mcs5309 5023 wrote:
My only concern for raising serum ferritin >100 would be increased inflammation and feeding gut pathogens.
Good call !! Why you need to be cautious ….
Reason I do a metametrix Gi effects stool test to confirm this in order to rule it out. One can find a Gi imbalance in about 80% of population even if they are totally asymptomatic. Kind of scary. 30% of people with intestinal hyper permeability issues have no GI related symptoms, but have other symptoms which can be neurological or show in the skin as well as other parts of the body.
Why If I suspect pathogen, lyme, bartonella, mycotoxins or viral load I have Dr vitamin d 1,25 to vitamin D 25 ratio to see if the body is in a pro inflammatory state. This is usually an indirect marker which has been shown to be an excellent indicator
Had client last night from Austrailia as soon as I saw her vitamin D 25 levels , her meds and supplementation, I asked right off the bat if she had vitamin D 1,25 tested. On supplements her vitamin D was 1000 ius which prompted my response. The Drs knew what was going on which was good to hear. Too many Drs over here are cranking vitamin D to 10,000 ius a day. My question is “Is our body lowering vitamin D down to protect us from viral, or pathogen loads?” I am being to believe so…
Even ferritin levels over 220 it will caution a potential red flag for inflammation..
@hardasnails1973 5339 wrote:
Good call !! Why you need to be cautious ….
Reason I do a metametrix Gi effects stool test to confirm this in order to rule it out. One can find a Gi imbalance in about 80% of population even if they are totally asymptomatic. Kind of scary. 30% of people with intestinal hyper permeability issues have no GI related symptoms, but have other symptoms which can be neurological or show in the skin as well as other parts of the body.
Why If I suspect pathogen, lyme, bartonella, mycotoxins or viral load I have Dr vitamin d 1,25 to vitamin D 25 ratio to see if the body is in a pro inflammatory state. This is usually an indirect marker which has been shown to be an excellent indicator
Had client last night from Austrailia as soon as I saw her vitamin D 25 levels , her meds and supplementation, I asked right off the bat if she had vitamin D 1,25 tested. On supplements her vitamin D was 1000 ius which prompted my response. The Drs knew what was going on which was good to hear. Too many Drs over here are cranking vitamin D to 10,000 ius a day. My question is “Is our body lowering vitamin D down to protect us from viral, or pathogen loads?” I am being to believe so…
Even ferritin levels over 220 it will caution a potential red flag for inflammation..
It has long been held that iron supplements feed unfriendly bacteria and protozoan parasites, the hallmarks of dysbiosis. I know Dr. Mariano likes to see a serum ferritin level of between 150-200 for males for proper ATP production & thyroid signaling. In order to reach such levels, exogenous supplementation and/or consuming iron-dense foods such as beef liver are a necessity. Again, my concern is as to “what is a safe threshold”. Also, I believe it is unabsorbed iron that could present more of a potential issue with respect to fueling the growth of gut bugs rather than serum ferritin itself.
However, in this recent study, we have a complete contradiction of this issue – at least in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22690070
And this even more recent study suggests that a lower iron intake can facilitate dysbiosis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22845175In sum:
“Low Fe conditions (1.56 mg Fe L(-1) ) significantly decreased acetate concentrations, and subsequent Fe supplementation (26.5 mg Fe L(-1) ) restored acetate production. High Fe following normal Fe conditions had no impact on the gut microbiota composition and metabolic activity.”“The strong dysbiosis of the gut microbiota together with decrease in main gut microbiota metabolites observed with very low iron conditions could weaken the barrier effect of the microbiota and negatively impact gut health.”
Here is some interesting aspects as to iron metabolism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_iron_metabolismAs to Vit. D being “fertilizer” for known and as-yet unknown pathogens (i.e the so-called nanobacteria), what you say reminds me of the Marshall Protocol which, IMHO, is too radical for me to accept as a rational scientific treatment protocol, especially when it’s based on an unmeasurable “stealth” pathogen:
http://marshallprotocol.com/
http://bacteriality.com/about-the-mp/
http://www.natmedtalk.com/f50/1643-marshall-protocol-stay-away-one.htmlPerhaps only in rare maladies such as sarcoidosis would Vit. D be contraindicated.
Speaking of pathogens, specifically Lyme, do you have any knowledge with respect to the CD57 test?
@mcs5309 5023 wrote:
My only concern for raising serum ferritin >100 would be increased inflammation and feeding gut pathogens.
If the diet was a high density nutritional diet – such as a traditional diet – the amount of nutrition would help a person control inflammation and gut pathogens. I usually would refer people to the book “Nourishing Traditions” for basic nutritional information.
If ferritin is suboptimal, such as a ferritin under 100, a person’s body can have compensatory changes which increases the risk for illness, inflammation and poor gut probiotic populations.
In regard to the best form of iron to take, I prefer traditional foods such as internal organs such as liver or blood foods such as English blood sausage, or Roman/Spanish blood stews, or juicy red meats such as rib eye steaks.
The body is simply built to more easily and completely absorb the form of iron in these foods than from mineral or plant forms of iron (such as in supplements). The ferritin or heme forms of iron don’t cause the constipation that mineral forms can.
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