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June 26, 2012 at 6:26 pm #1702kaliMember
I am a 46 yo female and this is my first post on this forum.
I am perimenopausal and recently saw my gyn for a 3 week period bleed and fatigue and brain fog. The brain fog was sudden and intense. Prior to that, my menses was regular.
She prescribed 400 mg of oral bioidentical progesterone and .25% bioidentical testosterone cream.
The first several weeks I was feeling really good. Improvement in all symptoms.
Then I started to have anxiety at night. This persisted until it became unbearable and become panic attacks every day and almost all evening. Torture, basically. I had to use xanax every day for 2 weeks.
Initially I was directed to cut the test. in half and apply am and pm.
That did not help.
Then to stop the progesterone. I stopped both prog. and tes. bc I was in misery and wanted my system to clear itself of whatever was causing this new, awful problem. AFter about 2 weeks the panic attacks stopped but I went back to feeling complete lethargy, mild depression, brain fog (horrible).
My doc wanted me to try the test. cream…but just half a dose in the am. I was not ever going to use it again bc I was afraid of it, but extreme fatigue over the last few days drove me to attempt the 1/2 dose…thinking it was probably the huge dose of progesterone that caused the anxiety. During the time that this was happening to me, my heart rate was about 150 and my b/p went up to 168/136. I had to get back on b/p meds bc I was afraid of the readings…prior to getting on bioidenticals, I’d been managing my b/p with supplements.
Well today I tried 1/2 dose of the .25 testosterone cream and within an hour I was up out of bed and on my way to the gym. My eyes literally popped open. But it’s been several hours and my heart is still beating very hard (all I did at gym was swim leisurely) and I am feeling very over stimulated. Both my doc and pharmacist are telling me that the testosterone cannot be causing this.
I am a person that has HORRID reactions to ephinephine (at the dentist) and I’ve been told by an oral surgeon to never let anyone administer it to me. This feels exactly like that.
What can I do about this? Obviously I can stop the testosterone, but what do with with the exhaustion/brain fog?My FSH indicates that i am not menopausal…but my “free testosterone” was zero, initially. When she retested (several days after i stopped) it was 17. I used the cream for 5 weeks total.
I take 1000 IU of krill, Vit C 1000 mg, olive leaf extract, evening primrose oil, 5000 units of D3, a probiotic, nexium and now b/p med which i’d been off of for 6 months.
It doesn’t seem that the docs really know a lot about this bioidentical hormone therapy. My own doc is new at it.
Any ideas and I would be appreciative.
August 22, 2012 at 1:06 am #4737mykgkeekMemberя фигею. такое видео где снимали интересно? а? русский инцест а
сын пердолит пьяную мать до потери пульса. блин
жестко. вот ссылкаAugust 22, 2012 at 8:42 am #4736DrMariano2ParticipantEvery thought, behavior or symptom is a summation of all the activities within cells in the body (metabolism) and the effects of their molecules (signals such as neurotransmitters, hormones, etc. and nutrients).
Cells of the body form groups for specialized functions. Large groups of cells are called systems.
I focus on several large ares to examine for problems which can summate to a person’s illness, which can give fairly straightforward targets for treatment that give a lot of bang for the buck. These areas include the nervous system, endocrine system, immune system, the gastrointestinal system, hepatic signaling function, metabolism and nutrition. These areas all interact with one another.
Fatigue or the lack of energy has many factors including:
1. suboptimal signals that promote energy and metabolism such as thyroid hormone and norepinephrine/adrenaline.
2. excessive signals that reduce energy and impair metabolism such as excessive pro-inflammatory signaling.
3. suboptimal nutrition – which includes a large number of vitamins and minerals that need optimization to improve. For example, optimizing iron is one area of importance to menstruating women who lose large amounts of iron with each period.
4. suboptimal production of adrenal hormones, including aldosterine, cortisol, etc.
5. suboptimal estrogen or testosterone – though many times this is a smaller issue that the ones above.Brain fog is a very general term which usually includes difficulty in thinking, concentrating, memory.
1. Many of the factors contributing to fatigue also contribute to brain fog. 2. The brain’s microglia and astrocytes can send pro-inflammatory signals as part of their immune system function.
3. Inflammatory illnesses (e.g. autoimmune illnesses, infections, allergies, etc.) can increase inflammatory signaling which is then transmitted to the brain to change behavior.Anxiety is an emotion which is triggered by excessive norepinephrine signaling, uncontrolled by other signaling systems. Norepinephrine is the primary signal of the sympathetic nervous system that is involved in fight or flight behavior. Heart rate can be elevated as well as blood pressure by norepinephrine in excess. Note that norepinephrine signaling, itself, increase pro-inflammatory signaling throughout the entire body.
Progesterone is an antiinflammatory signal in the brain. It’s daughter signal allopregnanolone is another important antiinflammatory signal. Progesterone also works through the GABA signal system to reduce norepinephrine signaling helping reduce anxiety, stress, and seizures.
The problem with progesterone is that it is a precursor (can be converted) to other hormones which can cause a cascade of events leading to the opposite effect.
For example, progesterone can be converted to the estrogens. It increases receptors for the estrogens, making one more sensitive to estrogen. The estrogens can promote aggression, anxiety, and inflammatorhy signaling if in excess. They can also reduce available thyroid hormone – leading to fatigue, increased anxiety. Both effects can lead to panic attacks.
Testosterone is a very calmling signal. However, it can be converted to estradiol and other estrogens, causing problems if the estrogens are in excess, causing problems in other systems.
Free testosterone is such a small part of the total testosterone signal that I do not use it as a measure of testosterone’s activity. Free testosterone is further determine by numerous other hormones. Thus, when free testosterone is low, the question is what is happening with those other hormones – e.g. estrogen, insulin (e.g. diabetes), progesterone, thyroid hormone, etc. I prefer monitoring total testosterone because it also gives me an idea of the dose of testosterone needed for replacement therapy.
There are a lot of areas that can have potential problems in the body and there are a lot of interactions.
One way of approaching it sequentially is to:
1. optimize nutrition
2. evalute for and address immune system problems (including gastrointestinal problems, which are commonly immune system problems).
3. optimize thyroid hormone
4. optimize nervous system function – e.g. controlling norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin signaling, improving sleep quality, etc.
5. then if needed, optimize adrenal hormone signaling.
6. then if needed, optimize reproductive hormone signaling.
7. then if needed, other optimizations including growth hormone.Each stage self-corrects problems in later stages. Adrenal problems generally reflect problems within the nervous system, immune system, and other hormone systems. Addressing these reduces the need to directly add adrenal hormones – this is often an imbalanced and unstable treatment with many possible downsides.
Often times, practitioners overly focus on testosterone, progesterone, and estrogens. But for behavioral problems, there are other much more important problems to address first that give one much more bang for the buck when it comes to improvement. For women, addressing these areas often eliminates the need for using estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone except for more limited targets of treatment – e.g. hair growth, acne, heavy periods from excessive estragen, bone metabolism, memory, etc.
Best,
Dr. M -
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