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December 10, 2009 at 4:48 pm #1436andybeanMember
Can you help me solve this puzzle?
I have a pituitary microadenoma, low testosterone, low DHEA, high LH, low body temp, high ferritin, and high RT3 (See specific numbers below). I’m currently taking 25mg HC and 2gr Nature-throid, but still have symptoms of being hypo: low libido, ED, fatigue, poor memory and concentration. Hypothyroidism, hashimoto’s, and heart problems run in my family.
I have been told to take testosterone and DHEA. I’ve also been told to switch from Nature-throid to Cytomel and take it throughout the day, ramping up the dosage over time to clear out the RT3 issue. I don’t want to take testosterone yet if I can improve my hypogonadism by correcting the hypothyroidism. What would you suggest? Are there any other lab values that would be helpful?
Gratefully,
AndyTotal Testosterone (serum) 523 (260 – 1000)
Testosterone (24 hr urine) 40 (45 – 85)
Total Estrogens (24 hr urine) 7.1 (4 – 22)
Androstenedione (24 hr urine) 78 (0 – 50)
DHEA (24 hr urine) 176 (5 – 1476)
DHEA (serum) 113 (120 – 520)
IGF-1 170 (106 – 255)
SHBG 31 (8 – 48)
LH (taken three years ago) 10.7 (1.7 – 8.6)Total Iron 60 (45 – 170)
TIBC 299 (250 – 425)
Ferritin 327 (20 – 345)FT3 433 (230 – 420)
FT4 1.2 (0.8 – 1.8)
RT3 34 (11 – 32)
Total T4 9.6 (4.5 – 12.5)
TSH <0.01
TPO (blood spot) 20 (0 – 150)December 11, 2009 at 10:18 am #3991MetalMXMemberHypogonadism? You have decent T levels as they are why would you go on T shots or gel?
This can be improved very easily to get it even higher. By titrating Thyroid/Adrenal dosages.
Also what is your diet like? if it is low fat then theirs your answers. What are your cholesterol levels? Use Hemp seed butter, EVCO, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, organic eggs etc…
What are your cortisol levels? Even though you are on 20mg of cortisol your blood work looks like that of someone with low cortisol or adrenal fatigue. I base that on Low DHEA’s, low IGF-1, High Free T3 with a low Free T4 and elevated RT3.
If your only issue was elevated RT3 than use Plain T3 by itself and drop the naturethyroid to clear it out. But that microadenoma could be causing RT3 issue no doubt.
Your symptoms could be caused by the adenoma itself. How is your vision?
December 11, 2009 at 1:46 pm #3993andybeanMemberMy serum testosterone levels have varied between 200 and 550. My new doctor thinks that serum levels are not the best indicator and relies on 24hr urine testing from Rhein Labs, which is what produced the low level 40 (normal range 45-85). Symptomatically, I have ED and low libido, so doctors seem quick to prescribe T gel.
I think my diet is good. I eat a lot of fat–coconut oil, EVOO, raw grass-fed butter and cream, etc., sea salt for the adrenals. I’m wondering now if I just need more HC. I’m at 25mg daily and my temp are just starting to stabilize. Maybe a little more and the T3 will start to get in my cells? I find it strange that I have such high FT3 levels on only 2 grains of Nature-throid.
Cortisol before I began HC was:
Salivary cortisol – ZRT labs
8am 5.4 (3.7 – 9.5)
Noon 2.1 (1.2 – 3.0)
4pm 2.7 (0.6 – 1.9)
8pm 0.6 (0.4 – 1.0)My vision is slightly blurry. I have very slight myopia (-.25) and moderate astigmatism (-1). I wear glasses occasionally.
I didn’t know about the RT3 numbers until this week. I’ve always had low DHEA and low to mid T. I’m wondering about the microadenoma and if prolactin could be involved. I should probably get a follow-up MRI to see if anything has changed, but my sense is that I should get the right HC and thyroid meds going first and see what happens.
Does that make sense, or do you see something else I should be looking into?
Thanks for your help.
December 12, 2009 at 8:54 am #3992MetalMXMember@andybean 2308 wrote:
My serum testosterone levels have varied between 200 and 550. My new doctor thinks that serum levels are not the best indicator and relies on 24hr urine testing from Rhein Labs, which is what produced the low level 40 (normal range 45-85). Symptomatically, I have ED and low libido, so doctors seem quick to prescribe T gel.
I think my diet is good. I eat a lot of fat–coconut oil, EVOO, raw grass-fed butter and cream, etc., sea salt for the adrenals. I’m wondering now if I just need more HC. I’m at 25mg daily and my temp are just starting to stabilize. Maybe a little more and the T3 will start to get in my cells? I find it strange that I have such high FT3 levels on only 2 grains of Nature-throid.
Cortisol before I began HC was:
Salivary cortisol – ZRT labs
8am 5.4 (3.7 – 9.5)
Noon 2.1 (1.2 – 3.0)
4pm 2.7 (0.6 – 1.9)
8pm 0.6 (0.4 – 1.0)My vision is slightly blurry. I have very slight myopia (-.25) and moderate astigmatism (-1). I wear glasses occasionally.
I didn’t know about the RT3 numbers until this week. I’ve always had low DHEA and low to mid T. I’m wondering about the microadenoma and if prolactin could be involved. I should probably get a follow-up MRI to see if anything has changed, but my sense is that I should get the right HC and thyroid meds going first and see what happens.
Does that make sense, or do you see something else I should be looking into?
Thanks for your help.
No problems.
It would have been interesting to see your blood cortisol levels what they we’re on that high level of FT3. You are right just get thyroid/adrenals balanced and it should improve. But i still believe your body could be making all that RT3 due to the adenoma it is just a self-defence mechanism to slow metabolism when any kind of illness takes hold within the body if not then it’s a cortisol issue.
Your ferritin is high which could indicate hyperthyroid but your labs don’t correlate with that so maybe some hidden inflammation is taking place in your body. How is your digestion?
Man i have ED and low libido but has nothing to do with testosterone perse, T improves once thyroid and cortisol signaling improve. I have hashimoto’s thyroiditis started thyroid meds T4/T3 was good for maybe what 2 days then crashing due to RT3 and cortisol issues. I then switched to plain T3 60mcg per day and much better but still crashing after a week. Added a little isocort made all the difference, had no sex drive or energy/motivation on thyroid alone now at least its coming back. Have to do bloods again as we all do.
The pattern i usually see on bloodwork is when you have Low cortisol = Low IGF-1 and Low Free T with High SHBG. Once cortisol is up to normal IGF-1, T goes up SHBG goes back down to normal. And we obviously know low or high cortisol causes thyroid resistance with ongoing hypo symptoms which is why it’s so important to regulate it.
It’s also possible your ED is being cause by the Adenoma itself not your T levels. Definitely get a follow-up MRI and see what is going on with it. Also look into possible heavy metal burden which can effect everything.
December 12, 2009 at 1:47 pm #3990hardasnails1973Member@andybean 2300 wrote:
Can you help me solve this puzzle?
I have a pituitary microadenoma, low testosterone, low DHEA, high LH, low body temp, high ferritin, and high RT3 (See specific numbers below). I’m currently taking 25mg HC and 2gr Nature-throid, but still have symptoms of being hypo: low libido, ED, fatigue, poor memory and concentration. Hypothyroidism, hashimoto’s, and heart problems run in my family.
I have been told to take testosterone and DHEA. I’ve also been told to switch from Nature-throid to Cytomel and take it throughout the day, ramping up the dosage over time to clear out the RT3 issue. I don’t want to take testosterone yet if I can improve my hypogonadism by correcting the hypothyroidism. What would you suggest? Are there any other lab values that would be helpful?
Gratefully,
AndyTotal Testosterone (serum) 523 (260 – 1000)
Testosterone (24 hr urine) 40 (45 – 85)
Total Estrogens (24 hr urine) 7.1 (4 – 22)
Androstenedione (24 hr urine) 78 (0 – 50)
DHEA (24 hr urine) 176 (5 – 1476)
DHEA (serum) 113 (120 – 520)
IGF-1 170 (106 – 255)
SHBG 31 (8 – 48)
LH (taken three years ago) 10.7 (1.7 – 8.6)Total Iron 60 (45 – 170)
TIBC 299 (250 – 425)
Ferritin 327 (20 – 345)FT3 433 (230 – 420)
FT4 1.2 (0.8 – 1.8)
RT3 34 (11 – 32)
Total T4 9.6 (4.5 – 12.5)
TSH <0.01
TPO (blood spot) 20 (0 – 150)You ever told you that rt3 is an issue and put you on t-3 only does not know hormones that well. Your level are perfectly fine in the proper ration so that could not be a factor. I had a person with high LH and low testosterone and he lacked the properl building blocks to make it. Once we supplied him with the proper building blocks his LH came down and testosterone went from 200 to over 600 avoiding TRT. High ferritin needs to be looked a potential hidden inflammation or infection that could cause false elevations. I would have your ferritin retested again in 4-5 weeks to see if it lowers. Most Dr jump to conclusion hemochromatosis, but with other iron indices pretty much in check makes one raise and eye brow so to speed. We have seen in several cases that people using t3 only have trippled their testosterone levels and resolved 90% of their symptoms and are back tolife. We do not recommend this often but in some instances it can work. Personally in your case I would not mess with t3 only and work on actually lowering your thyroid and increase thyroid signalling. I have seen high ferritin in cases of actually hyperthyroidism as well. For optimal hormone out put I would look at lifestlyle, nutrient imbalances, sleep hygeine , emotional stress, liver/gut issues that can cause silent inflammation depleting adrenals, gum issues, other multiple factors to get the desired out come. If you have insurance there are test that can be ran to look to see if you have the proper ratios of macronutrients to build these hormones. What is your cholesterol <150 then bank on your testosterone being low with out having the building blocks. Thyroid meds also increase shbg making T less used by the body.. Pm me if interested in further pursuing what factors need to be furthered explored here to help you return to optimal health.
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