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JanSz,
Per the other thread:
History (numbers approximate & from memory, but on the money):
Baseline, non-HRT DHT: 570 (top of scale went to around 550)
Androgel 100 mg: 1100
PLO gel 150 mg: 1800
T-CYP: 570 (on day 3)I currently use 1 mg finasteride every other day, and I am running labs tomorrow, so I will know what my DHT is.
I have not had any of the libido issues others report. It is remotely possible that a number of months after starting finasteride my mood changed (more tired/anxiety), but I truly believe that is more to do with some very real situational stress, which correlates to the same time frame. I mention it for completeness sake.
I am on it for two reasons: First, I am worried about supraphysiologic levels of DHT and second, I was losing hair by the handfull. If I looked good with a shaved head, I wouldn’t care. I don’t.
I have been considering going back on gels and using finasteride to lessen the conversion to DHT; I think gels (if one absorbs) is probably the better way to go, at least if used in conjunction with HCG.
Since 100 mg androgel got me to 1100, I wonder what 50 mg + 100 iu HCG would look like.
It is funny. I have started researching this on the net and it seems there is a subset of people who have almost identical numbers to mine (T – DHT) who want to be on gels, but can’t.
@chaos 157 wrote:
JanSz,
Per the other thread:
History (numbers approximate & from memory, but on the money):
Baseline, non-HRT DHT: 570 (top of scale went to around 550)
Androgel 100 mg: 1100
PLO gel 150 mg: 1800
T-CYP: 570 (on day 3)I currently use 1 mg finasteride every other day, and I am running labs tomorrow, so I will know what my DHT is.
I have not had any of the libido issues others report. It is remotely possible that a number of months after starting finasteride my mood changed (more tired/anxiety), but I truly believe that is more to do with some very real situational stress, which correlates to the same time frame. I mention it for completeness sake.
I am on it for two reasons: First, I am worried about supraphysiologic levels of DHT and second, I was losing hair by the handfull. If I looked good with a shaved head, I wouldn’t care. I don’t.
I have been considering going back on gels and using finasteride to lessen the conversion to DHT; I think gels (if one absorbs) is probably the better way to go, at least if used in conjunction with HCG.
Since 100 mg androgel got me to 1100, I wonder what 50 mg + 100 iu HCG would look like.
It is funny. I have started researching this on the net and it seems there is a subset of people who have almost identical numbers to mine (T – DHT) who want to be on gels, but can’t.
I would reduce to 75 mgs for 10 days and get base level to about TT 600-800 2 hours after application. After getting the peak at 600-800 2 hours post application one could go in the morning and get tested with out the gel on to get the trough. Once you have these 2 numbers one can see if you are fast metabolilzer or if you are pretty steady (500 at trough) Once these to numbers are established and TT and E are in check for at least 3-4 weeks then hcg at 250 ius can be added in every 3 rd day.
Gels take my DHT to 230 ..Less drugs the better because it creates less variables to content with.
It is difficult to avoid having high DHT levels on gels. This is particularly true if a person genetically has high skin DHT levels. In this case, hair loss is a real concern when using gels.
When applied well (thinnest layer possible over largest area) and absorbed well, an alcohol based gel gives very stable blood levels of testosterone through the day, even if one is a fast metabolizer. The main reason is that testosterone is released slowly from the skin fat later throughout the day.
If one wants to minimize DHT using transdermal preparations, then using a higher potency alcohol based gel would allow application over a smaller area – thus having less DHT conversion. Generally, I would consider using a 5% alcohol-based gel. It is possible to go up to 10% using an oil-based gel. This way, the area used is about the same as a coke can. But then large ups and downs in testosterone can occur with an oil-based gel since the testosterone can bypass the skin fat and go directly into the blood, where the half-life can be cut down close to between 10-100 minutes.
If one wants to minimize DHT as much as possible, then testosterone injections or implanted testosterone pellets are probably the best methods of delivery.
Just got my DHT results.
On 1.25 mg finasteride EOD, midweek from weekly shot, last finasteride dose 24 hours earlier (EOD), DHT = 462 (155 – 553).
On the same day relative to the shot without finasteride, my DHT was 570.
So, 1.25 mg fin EOD is lowering my serum DHT by approximately 20%.
@chaos 230 wrote:
Just got my DHT results.
On 1.25 mg finasteride EOD, midweek from weekly shot, last finasteride dose 24 hours earlier (EOD), DHT = 462 (155 – 553).
On the same day relative to the shot without finasteride, my DHT was 570.
So, 1.25 mg fin EOD is lowering my serum DHT by approximately 20%.
Note that Serum DHT is different from Skin DHT.
The Serum DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) level does not reflect how much of skin DHT is being inhibited by Finasteride.
Most of the scalp DHT, from what I know, is inhibited by Finasteride at 1 mg a day. This is much lower than the dose of 5 mg used for prostate problems.
@DrMariano 231 wrote:
Note that Serum DHT is different from Skin DHT.
The Serum DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) level does not reflect how much of skin DHT is being inhibited by Finasteride.
Most of the scalp DHT, from what I know, is inhibited by Finasteride at 1 mg a day. This is much lower than the dose of 5 mg used for prostate problems.
I have heard the same thing. In fact, this is the reason I chose the EOD dose; I believe it works in the scalp longer.
Dr. M does androstenadiol glucuronide pose a significant measure of the 5-ar II reductase acitivity, and what could be the reason behind us finasteride sufferers who have taken the drug for a month or so and since then have deteriorating health (namely, adrenal fatigue, decreased libido, testicular size and penile size, prostatic issues, depression and others)
Is it possible that while one enzyme gets lowered like 5-arII the other one aromatase can increase activity??
Have you dealth with any finasteride patients up to date??
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